D&D General Boredom in "Zero to Hero" Campaigns

[Dausuul]

This is an interesting thread. I often hear people complaining that they're sick of "save the world" plots and wish D&D were a little bit more grounded. But sometimes I hear complaints like that of the OP, where people say it takes too long to reach "save the world" levels.

I don't think there is necessarily a contradiction here. There is a wide range of options between "save the entire world" and "clear giant rats out of the basement." You can want stakes higher than the latter, without every adventure having to be the former.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

I don't think there is necessarily a contradiction here. There is a wide range of options between "save the entire world" and "clear giant rats out of the basement." You can want stakes higher than the latter, without every adventure having to be the former.

I agree that there's a spectrum. In fact, in my campaigns I aim for somewhere in the middle.

 

[CleverNickName]

Instead of starting everyone off at a higher level, start them off with better equipment. Maybe give everyone in the campaign a powerful magic item to start with.

Like, give the ranger a magic bow that shoots magic missiles. Give the barbarian a pet unicorn and a thundering club. Give the rogue an invisibility cloak, give the wizard a wand of wonder (shaped like a hat)...

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Also an option I have used.

However, it can simply be solved with a bit more imaginative DMing.

Take ToA. As written this has a simple objective that players are given at the start. But realise it is presented in this way for the benefit of inexperienced players and DMs. There is a clear simple instruction so everyone knows what they are supposed to be doing. It makes no assumptions about character backstories. Players have a chance to learn the rules before encountering any real danger. It even suggests they take an NPC guide so the DM can give them continuous advice.

I would stat ToA something like this: The PCs are condemned criminals, on board a ship being deported to a penal colony in Chult. As the ship approaches Chult it is attacked by a sea monster (something like the two headed plesiosaur seems appropriate). The PCs can take the opportunity to escape, or bargaining with the guards by offering to help fight the monster. Irrespective of if the players kill the monster (a deadly encounter at first level) or not the ship is wrecked on a remote part of the Chult coast and the PCs are the only survivors. They now need to try and survive the jungle with only the equipment they can salvage from the wreck. Eventually, after months traipsing through the jungle, the PCs might learn of the Death Curse, but by then they are half way through the adventure.

Clearly, such a beginning is harder for the DM to run and is hugely more difficult for the players. But if the players are experienced they should welcome the challenge.

 

[Coroc]

I don't think there is necessarily a contradiction here. There is a wide range of options between "save the entire world" and "clear giant rats out of the basement." You can want stakes higher than the latter, without every adventure having to be the former.

I agree that there's a spectrum. In fact, in my campaigns I aim for somewhere in the middle.

Agreed, everything could go the middle road also though, as you write. With the rats in the basement, I like to vary stuff like that, e.g. I am tight on money and starting equipment in my campaigns, so the adventurers have to take "jobs" for their stuff and daily living, and if the job is hunting vermin in the city sewers then it is like that. Normally there is a plot behind it which could go from (cliché trigger warning ):
A wererat is responsible for all those rats via the rats are spys for the orc invasion via the rats are summoned by a cult of a pestilence deity till the rats are one of the first signs of the upcoming apocalypse.

So the range is very wide imho. If the players get fed up with rats goblins and kobolds (I have to admit the goblins and kobolds are far more overused imho than the rats), then the DM can still use different low level mobs with other specialties.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I don't think I have ever used rats, goblins or kobolds as 1st level enemies. Over the last couple of years I have use used zombies, a grey ooze, animated objects and humans.

 

[Laurefindel]

I can see that there are many concepts and association at play in this thread:

From some posts, I get that importance = competence. Objectively, level 1 characters have the least amount of competence. Whether importance = competence has not been talked about much.

the difference between lvl 1 and lvl 2 is significant. So significant that DM feel like they have to hold their punches at lvl 1 to avoid accidental TPK.

for some, zipping through lvl 1-3 is fun and satisfactory. For others, these levels take their significance if they are played thoroughly or properly. For others still, you might as well skip them if they are rushed through anyway, or if the players and DM need to hold back

for some, level 1 and 2 are seen as some sort of training wheels for new players, others point out that play experience of level 1 (and to a lesser extent 2) is not representative of “typical” D&D play.

 

[Cleon]

Here's a random thought: for those of you tiring of the "zero to hero" situation, how about turning it around for a change? Start up a campaign where the PCs start out powerful (however high you decide is powerful enough: 12th level maybe, or heck, maybe even 20th) and somehow trigger a curse (maybe by ticking off a deity? - you decide). From that point on, track XP in reverse; as they run through more and more encounters, they lose XP and eventually start dropping in level. This would have to be different than mere standard level loss - it can't be reversed with a restoration spell or whatever. Now the PCs have a definite goal: find out how they triggered the curse and how to go about getting it reversed...all while every bit of combat removes XP and gets them closer and closer to losing yet another level. And as formerly powerful PCs, they'll have made similarly powerful enemies, who they'll now need to try to avoid. Heck, they'll have to start deciding whether any particular given combat is worth the potential subsequent drop in level. And yet, as the world still believes them to be the movers and shakers - literally the best at what they do - they'll still be getting requests to do the things that need getting done.

It would probably get really irritating for the players if you to tried to stretch this over a full campaign (more or less in reverse), but it could be an interesting way to start off a campaign in a completely different manner. And whatever level the PCs are at when they finally manage to reverse their curse, that's where they'll start back up at gaining levels like normal...only with their previous powerful enemies just as powerful as they ever were.

Hmm… a "Hero to Zero" adventure path would also work if the level-losing curse affected EVERYTHING. For example, the campaign starts with the 20th level PCs fighting a Demon Prince and his superlich buddy when someone (accidentally or deliberately?) releases the God of Entropy and the whole world slowly begins to crumble towards weakness, magicless mundanity or ultimate annihilation. That seems a nicely epic "save the world" scenario for an AP, revolving around stopping and hopefully reversing the effect.

The entropy could affect everything at more or less the same proportional rate over time, so the CR 24 Demon Prince becomes CR 12 after X months while over the same period a CR 8 Troll Warlord becomes CR 4. That way all the 1st level commoners in the land don't crumble into dust after a couple of sessions. One of the final encounters could be the 1st level PCs fighting a Quasit and an animated skeleton who used to be the Epic Threats they faced in the opening battle.

Maybe it turns out there's a Hidden Evil Mastermind who set the thing off. They discovered the Hidden Temple of Entropy and its secret sequested Demiplane where they're hiding out waiting for the God Who Should Not Be Named to leave after turning the entire world mundane. They then emerge to enjoy the feeling of power they've always craved. They may only be a 4th level Adept, but if everyone else is stuck being 1st level NPC classes they'll finally be noteworthy!