D&D 5E Bouncing heroes and healing tweaks

[Corwin]

Yup, readying a spell is powerful, but also a good way to waste spell slots.

I don't see how healing can really be seen as "wasted". I mean, maybe? Again, a corner case. I guess if the cleric healed the rogue, despite the giant never landing another hit before being defeated, and the group was able to immediately get in at least a short rest to recover hit points without magic. Then, yeah, I guess in that case the healing spell was technically "wasted". In that the rogue had a method of recovering his health without needing that spell slot earlier. But even then, the spell was not without some value. Relief or peace of mind, if nothing else, that he had a bit more cushion, should something have tried to hurt him before he could rest.

 

[Ricochet]

We have a few house rules that everyone enjoys.

1) When you go to negative hit points, you gain one level of Exhaustion upon being healer and getting back up.

This helps with the yoyo effect, and effectively makes the PCs care more for each other and everyone staying above 0 HP. All three groups I play in use this rule now - it's really working great for us, and adds a bit of consequence to neglecting your (and others') hit points.

2) When you are down and dying, we don't roll ANY death saving throws until someone checks on the character. It adds a lot of drama when someone goes:

Player: "I check on Will."
GM: You've been down and bleeding for four rounds, right Will?
Will: Yep.
GM: Make four death saves (or however many is needed).
Group: Stares at Will's rolls with great anxiety.

 

[Rya.Reisender]

I don't see how healing can really be seen as "wasted". I mean, maybe? Again, a corner case. I guess if the cleric healed the rogue, despite the giant never landing another hit before being defeated, and the group was able to immediately get in at least a short rest to recover hit points without magic. Then, yeah, I guess in that case the healing spell was technically "wasted". In that the rogue had a method of recovering his health without needing that spell slot earlier. But even then, the spell was not without some value. Relief or peace of mind, if nothing else, that he had a bit more cushion, should something have tried to hurt him before he could rest.

What I mean is that it's wasted if the trigger condition is not met. Because it still consumes the spell slot (unless you use an action to keep readying it, then it wastes a turn instead).

 

[Corwin]

What I mean is that it's wasted if the trigger condition is not met.

And, again, I don't see how such a concern would be a possibility given the example presented. So your point baffles me. Or is it just a non sequitur?

Because it still consumes the spell slot (unless you use an action to keep readying it, then it wastes a turn instead).

Once more, given the situation as presented, what's the real downside here? If you end up holding the spell another round that means the giant didn't attack. Which means the rogue didn't get dropped to 0. Which means nothing bad actually happened to warrant the held spell needed to be expended (yet). So go ahead and hold onto it a little longer. No harm, no foul.

 

[Tony Vargas]

And, again, I don't see how such a concern would be a possibility given the example presented. So your point baffles me. Or is it just a non sequitur?

You were already given examples of how it would be a possibility. So your bafflement is pointless. Or is it just a non sequitur?


Seriously, Ready has been around since 3.0, and the potential for the readied action to go un-triggered has always been a potential down-side of it.

Once more, given the situation as presented, what's the real downside here? If you end up holding the spell another round that means the giant didn't attack. Which means the rogue didn't get dropped to 0. Which means nothing bad actually happened to warrant the held spell needed to be expended (yet).

Which means you could have attacked or taken some other action instead of healing.
Which just takes us back around to the original fear that pro-active healing is the 'weaker' or less efficient choice. Though, I'm not sure, at this point, if you're arguing for or against or at a right angle to that concern...

 

[Harzel]

Once more, given the situation as presented, what's the real downside here? If you end up holding the spell another round that means the giant didn't attack. Which means the rogue didn't get dropped to 0. Which means nothing bad actually happened to warrant the held spell needed to be expended (yet). So go ahead and hold onto it a little longer. No harm, no foul.

As long as you are holding the spell readied you cannot cast any other spell, and if your concentration is broken the spell fizzles. And, as someone else mentioned, if the spell does finally go off it burns your reaction in addition to the action you originally used to ready it. Those are real downsides, even if, in certain circumstances, one concludes the benefit outweighs them.

 

[Corwin]

You were already given examples of how it would be a possibility. So your bafflement is pointless. Or is it just a non sequitur?

Nope. Nothing that would make any sense, anyway. Unless you, as the cleric, are intentionally playing daft or trying to handicap yourself. I guess, sure, if you go out of your way to make terrible decisions, you may find yourself in a bad situation. There's always that.

Seriously, Ready has been around since 3.0, and the potential for the readied action to go un-triggered has always been a potential down-side of it.

You mentioning an older edition? Wha...?!? Seriously though, never the point. I've only ever addressed the scenario of readying a heal spell because a giant is in the process of pounding the nearly unconscious rogue into the dirt. That's it. You want to play generic white-room, go ahead. But I didn't sing up for that.

Which means you could have attacked or taken some other action instead of healing.
Which just takes us back around to the original fear that pro-active healing is the 'weaker' or less efficient choice.

Clearly. I'll let my table know they aren't winning D&D properly.

 

[Corwin]

As long as you are holding the spell readied you cannot cast any other spell, and if your concentration is broken the spell fizzles. And, as someone else mentioned, if the spell does finally go off it burns your reaction in addition to the action you originally used to ready it. Those are real downsides, even if, in certain circumstances, one concludes the benefit outweighs them.

See above. You are attacking a strawman at this point. I've only ever addressed a specific, narrow scenario. Not sure what everyone is trying to prove by taking it out into the wider world of generic, all-encompassing possibilities. Are people white-knighting at this point? Or maybe trying to "school a newb" on how the rules really work?

 

[Saeviomagy]

See above. You are attacking a strawman at this point.

Your initial argument is "in the situation where initiative goes cleric-giant-rogue, you might be better off readying a healing spell".

The argument opposing you is "readying a healing spell comes with risks".

You appear to be trying to argue that those risks are zero. Since this is an excruciatingly difficult argument to prove, you're not succeeding.

I'm not seeing a constructed, easily defeated scenario being substituted for your own position here. In fact I'm not even seeing anyone saying that your initial argument is wrong, merely that it's a tactic that has risks.

I've only ever addressed a specific, narrow scenario.

Your scenario is specific, but in the context of D&D, nothing is really narrow.

Not sure what everyone is trying to prove by taking it out into the wider world of generic, all-encompassing possibilities. Are people white-knighting at this point?

I'm not sure what benefits people would be trying to score with Tony... and most of the defense seems to have been himself...

Or maybe trying to "school a newb" on how the rules really work?

I'm not seeing any rules arguments either. There's some argument on 'how likely is the scenario where readying an action fails?"

You appear to think that nobody ever fails a ready action.

I personally feel like readying a spell is a massive risk. You limit your mobility and risk losing your action as well as potentially the spell slot.

I think the best option in this scenario is to cast something totally different like command or sanctuary.

I might also try to persuade the DM to let me spend my action "aiding" the rogue to give the giant disadvantage on his next attack.

 

[dropbear8mybaby]

Haven't read the entire thread so if this house rule has been covered already, sorry. But what I do is two things:

1) Dropping to 0 incurs 1 level of exhaustion.
2) Healing spells and potions can only be used while the target is conscious.

Those two things become major disincentives to allow companions to drop to 0 and to let your own character drop to 0.