Bounded Accuracy L&L

[B.T.]

They really seem to think that unless you have a really strong character in the party who is able to force a door open, a wooden door will be a challenge for a level 20 party. Which means they apparently do not think all the other ways to deal with a door, mainly, hacking it to pieces, are applicable.

That is a rather ungenerous way of interpreting the article. Personally, I read it more favorably, as the party wizard won't be able to force down the door with a Strength check (but that doesn't mean he won't have other options for getting around it).

 

[IronWolf]

That is an interpretation that does not fit the text posted. The text claims that if the party has no one with a high strength score, then a wooden door might present a challenge at level 20.

They say might, not will.

 

[Fenes]

They say might, not will.

Can you honestly imagine a level 20 D&D party that might be held up by a wooden door? In any edition? A party that can take a level 20 foe, but can't destroy a wooden door as easily as a sheet of paper?

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Can you honestly imagine a level 20 D&D party that might be held up by a wooden door? In any edition? A party that can take a level 20 foe, but can't destroy a wooden door as easily as a sheet of paper?

Yep, I can. People in real life don't always choose the easiest way to accomplish their goals. Players sometimes like to take unconventional routes. So even though the 20th-level party full of 10 STR characters has a ton of other options to get through that door the players might just say "what the heck" and attempt to throw their shoulder into it. Maybe to challenge themselves. Maybe to preserve resources. Maybe to flex and brag when they succeed or laugh when they fail miserably. It's the players' choice, not yours.

This was an assumption that 4E made. That your character would use the something that made up that +1/2 level bonus to always open that door. I still defend that approach and enjoy it. But it isn't necessary for the game and I understand how many people took issue with it.

Edit: You have taken the assumption that the author ignored other factors. And you extend that assumption to make other assumptions about the direction the game is headed. I think it is quite foolish to laser-focus in on one example that explains the effects of bounded accuracy as a damning feature of a game not yet complete.

 

[Fenes]

Yep, I can. People in real life don't always choose the easiest way to accomplish their goals. Players sometimes like to take unconventional routes. So even though the 20th-level party full of 10 STR characters has a ton of other options to get through that door the players might just say "what the heck" and attempt to throw their shoulder into it. Maybe to challenge themselves. Maybe to preserve resources. Maybe to flex and brag when they succeed or laugh when they fail miserably. It's the players' choice, not yours.

Willingly taking a break to do some exercise is not "being held up". Challenging yourself is not teh same as being challenged by something else.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Willingly taking a break to do some exercise is not "being held up". Challenging yourself is not teh same as being challenged by something else.

Well, luckily, Rodney Thompson never said it would result in the party "being held up." What he said was:

There's no need to constantly escalate the in-world descriptions to match a growing DC; an iron-banded door is just as tough to break down at 20th level as it was at 1st, and it might still be a challenge for a party consisting of heroes without great Strength scores.

He did not specify whether it might be a challenge that the group presented itself with or one that was caused by something else. So, basically, you just continue to put words into his mouth that he did not say.

 

[Fenes]

It boggles the mind that people can't simply say "Yeah, a wooden door should be no challenge at level 20. Now, about this other point..." and instead have to keep defending such stupidity.

 

[vagabundo]

I'm waiting for the inevitable thread title in a few years: "My 20th lvl Party was TPKed by a Wooden Door!!"

 

[Fenes]

I'm waiting for the inevitable thread title in a few years: "My 20th lvl Party was TPKed by a Wooden Door!!"

"My game was ruined when a wizard animated a wooden door and had it fight all my NPCs!"

 

[Steely_Dan]

I'm waiting for the inevitable thread title in a few years: "My 20th lvl Party was TPKed by a Wooden Door!!"

...a Vile Wooden Door...they'll get ya...*in the voice of Ron Burgundy*