Bounded Accuracy L&L

[Tortoise]

I did playtest it.

But without the creation rules I cannot playtest two characters that are identical except for class.

Have you tried adjusting character abilities and then adding up the plus to hit and plus to damage? If you actually do the math with the sheets you will discover some bonuses included for certain characters that don't appear to have a cause. These will be revealed when the playtest of character creation comes out in a few months. Meanwhile there will definitely be differences in the to hit and damage areas even if the stats are identical.

The reason according to Mearls and others in chats, interviews, podcasts, and articles on the Wizard's site - class and race modifiers.

So yes, you could playtest characters with identical ability scores without having the character creation rules in hand. Admittedly, it would be more fun to have those rules to mess around with, but to see what we've been discussing you don't need them.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I agree, treating a large number of goblins as a swarm would probably be the best solution. In fact, good swarm rules could be the basis for a mass combat system as well. Morale rules are probably not necessary, as hit points can represent morale easily enough.

When a swarm runs out of hit points, the surviving creatures disperse and flee. If it contains any fearless members, like a horde of orcs with a few berserkers mixed in, that could be a special effect - e.g. when the swarm is defeated, 2d4 orc berserkers remain while the rest of the orcs flee.

Ya know, if XP was not disabled I Xp you for the Orc berserkers idea.
As for the no morale version, then I would know some fraction off the total hitpoints of the swarm to represent the point at which morale would collapse and note it in the statblock.
Also units noted for discipline might shake off individuals as a rear guard to cover the retreat of the rest of the unit.

 

[Minigiant]

Have you tried adjusting character abilities and then adding up the plus to hit and plus to damage? If you actually do the math with the sheets you will discover some bonuses included for certain characters that don't appear to have a cause. These will be revealed when the playtest of character creation comes out in a few months. Meanwhile there will definitely be differences in the to hit and damage areas even if the stats are identical.

The reason according to Mearls and others in chats, interviews, podcasts, and articles on the Wizard's site - class and race modifiers.

So yes, you could playtest characters with identical ability scores without having the character creation rules in hand. Admittedly, it would be more fun to have those rules to mess around with, but to see what we've been discussing you don't need them.

Invalid option. The character sheets have hidden mechanics. There might be unexpected change I know not of.

 

[Obryn]

I am of two minds about this.

On the positive side, it's the unique bit that gives Next its identity. Which is awesome. Right now, it has very little to recommend it over existing editions of D&D.

On the negative side, I have concerns.

(1) Does this make your primary attack stat even MORE important than it is in 4e? Will a character with a 16 be effectively gimped compared to one with an 18?

(2) How are magic items in this? Are they crucial to your accuracy?

(3) What are the mechanics for getting better at a skill?

(4) At higher levels, honestly I'd like my powerful Rogue to hit a kobold more often than they did at level 1.

...So I'll need some convincing, but I'm glad Next is finally showing me something that other editions didn't do better.

-O

 

[Hawke]

(4) At higher levels, honestly I'd like my powerful Rogue to hit a kobold more often than they did at level 1.

I wonder if the additional options you have at level is really what leveling up means for them. Sorry for the MMO reference, but like in swtor if you do pvp it levels you up to 49. Ignoring some higher level pvp gear, the big difference you end up with is more options in your toolkit for different situations or more big cooldown powers to go through before tapping out and going back to your basic attack.

But then we hear about how 4E had too many options and slowed things down.

I don't know - it seems incompatible - if you want a swing and roll and repeat kind of game, it seems like that's exactly where you wouldn't want bounded accuracy so you could run through and feel cool beause that Orc chieftan that was a pain is suddenly easy in the context of a war.

On the other hand, if you like a game with power cards and many options for combat as the driver of advancement (like 4E?), bounded accuracy seems to better fit that game.

 

[Fenes]

What's with all the people fixated on giving doors hit points? It's simple, they have a break DC. It doesn't matter how you describe the method, Nodwick's head, Conan's shoulder, etc, it just has a target number to roll to enter "status - broken".

Unless of course the door is actually a mimic . . .

It makes no sense that a wooden door would be as difficult to damage at level 1 as at level 20 even though you do much more damage to monsters. If doors are unable to be damaged with weapons, and can only be "broken" through a strength check then we just wrecked immersion, disregarding all real life examples of people using axes to destroy doors.

 

[Fenes]

That's almost funny, but no, not how it works.

What is "funny" is that the devs actually seem to think a wooden door should be a challenge for an epic party if they don't have weight lifters among them. Which means "Epic Party" is somewhat less adept at destroying doors than your average firefighter with an axe.

What is "funny" in a sad way is that there are actual people here who seem to believe an epic party should not be able to casually destroy a door with a single swipe from an weapon that can go through a dragon's hide or an iron golem's arm and instead have to try to force it open using brute strength.

Let me repeat it: If in DDN I can't use my magic axe to do to wooden doors what real life firefighters use their axes to, but are expected to force doors open, then that's not helping immersion, but wrecking it.

 

[Fenes]

Similarly, DCs in 4E are only expected to scale IF YOU WANT A CHALLENGE. Climbing a normal rope in normal conditions never gets any harder. A level 20 fighter in 4E is going to be kicking down that solid oak door without being impeded while that the level 20 5E fighter has to hack away at it. A 4E character might have to hack away at that rune-covered door, but the 5E fighter will probably need a work crew. That's a very different flavor and range of ability, and both are fine in their own way.

A game where the highest level heroes have trouble with a wooden door doesn't feel like D&D at all.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

Ok, seriously, there's so much discussion of this wooden door that I think we may have a new contender for 'simplest possible adventure'. So much for an Orc with a pie, now the pie is simply BEHIND A WOODEN DOOR!

 

[Fenes]

An orc is simpler still - not even WotC apparently thinks a single orc should be a challenge for a level 20 party, but apparently a single wooden door could be a challenge in DDN.