Bow Feats

[irdeggman]

What he's saying is that when firing a bow you get to pretend you were stronger.

Str 14 character. Composite Longbow (+5).
Normally this character is at -2 to attacks for 1d8+2 damage.

If he took "Archer" once then he'd effectively be Str 16 when using a bow.
-2 to attacks for 1d8+3 damage.

If he took Archer three times then he'd effectively be Str 20 when using a bow.
+0 to attacks for 1d8+5 damage.

If he took Archer seven times (the max he could take it) then he'd effectively be Str 28 when using a bow.
With the above bow he'd be at +0 to attacks for 1d8+5 damage.

If he got a bow that only a strong Troll could draw (Composite [+9]) and had taken Archer seven times then he'd have the following bow attack.
+0 to attack for 1d8+9 damage.

That is what this proposed feat would do.

Personally, I find it to be too good an option, especially for the bow-specialized fighter who has the feats to spend on it. The only downside is having to purchase a bow powerful enough for your ridiculous draw-power.

Actually if you read what he said in response to my posts - it does not add for the "to hit roll".


So this might have been what he meant, but it didn't come out that way.

He said it is not tied to negating Str penalties for long bows (which is what this would do).

Is it tied into allowing a person with too low a Str to be able to use a composite bow - the answer was NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.


Now after being snippy with his answer he came back to state

You know your strength stat right, well this feat gives you extra STR when you use a bow,

There is quite a contridiction in the answers.

My "original" question came about because of

Well the orignal idea was based on the real life effect of use of (any type) bow,
the more poundage you can draw (and much depends on the bow needless to say) the more powerfull the arrow, (better range etc) most people around today could not draw the string of a naval long bow, so strength will still have a relation to damage,

and this

And a more powerfull Bow (should) = Better damage, Better range

Which led me to question whether or not he was attempting to adjust how bows were being used (in D&D).


Range (in D&D) isn't affected by Str for projectile weapons. That is all composite bows have teh same range (short bows all are teh same regardless of rating and so are long bows).

And since this is a rules forum I tried to put things in relation to the RAW.


Now a single feat that lets you treat your Str as 2 higher than normal for the purposes of using a bow doesn't seem all that overpowering. Allowing it to be taken multiple times on the other hand could very well lead to an out of balance situation.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Now a single feat that lets you treat your Str as 2 higher than normal for the purposes of using a bow doesn't seem all that overpowering. Allowing it to be taken multiple times on the other hand could very well lead to an out of balance situation.

Hehe, this reminded me of that South Park episode where they kept saying "now that's what I call a sticky situation".

"-Now that's what I call an out of balance situation."

 

[librarius_arcana]

What he's saying is that when firing a bow you get to pretend you were stronger.

No it's not pretend, it's real, but due to a limited group of muscles (mostly across the back of your shoulders) , When I started in archery the most I cloud pull at the time was 45 pound bow (most trainning bow are about 15 - 30 pounds) there were others in the team who had been doing this for long who were pulling up to 120 pound (but most were using 60 pounds setting) Believe me I'm a fairly strong guy and I couldn't pull the string back on that 120 bow any more than an inch or two, I was stronger over all, but these guys had developed that area of muscle group,

Str 14 character. Composite Longbow (+5).
Normally this character is at -2 to attacks for 1d8+2 damage.

If he took "Archer" once then he'd effectively be Str 16 when using a bow.
-2 to attacks for 1d8+3 damage.

If he took Archer three times then he'd effectively be Str 20 when using a bow.
+0 to attacks for 1d8+5 damage.

If he took Archer seven times (the max he could take it) then he'd effectively be Str 28 when using a bow.
With the above bow he'd be at +0 to attacks for 1d8+5 damage.

If he got a bow that only a strong Troll could draw (Composite [+9]) and had taken Archer seven times then he'd have the following bow attack.
+0 to attack for 1d8+9 damage.

That is what this proposed feat would do.

Bingo, you've totally got it

Personally, I find it to be too good an option, especially for the bow-specialized fighter who has the feats to spend on it. The only downside is having to purchase a bow powerful enough for your ridiculous draw-power.

Yeah but it will cost alot of feats, making him very focused on the one thing,
(and even then thats the extreme end of the stick)

 

[ValhallaGH]

When I said "pretend you were stronger" I meant that this feat didn't suddenly do what Gloves of Ogre Strength do. The character isn't stronger overall, which is what the D&D Str score is for; he acts as if he were stronger overall but only in this one specific application. Therefore the character gets to pretend that he had a natural 28 Strength (or natural 32 strength if he is normally Str 18) while he's using a bow. Since the damage inflicted is real, he obviously is some kind of powerful but he's not swinging a greatsword with the speed and deadliness of someone with a natural 32 strength, ergo my use of the word pretend.
Also, extremes is where we see how broken the feat is or is not. Dealing 2d6+26 + assorted dice of energy or bane or favored enemy damage with a high level Goliath fighter / something that has an effective 42 Str when using a bow results in an average of 33 points of damage per shot (99 on a crit) with at least five attacks per round, six if it's a speed weapon. Letting this feat stack is incredibly powerful, almost certainly brokenly so.

Being a houserule, this feat doesn't really help out the OP much, as he was searching for existing, semi-official feats to increase damage.

 

[epicycloid]

Being a houserule, this feat doesn't really help out the OP much, as he was searching for existing, semi-official feats to increase damage.

Well isn't that what Wf/Wsp/GWf/GWsp etc... are for. Don't these feats represent months/years of specialized traning in a given weapon.

Using the same line of reasoning, if you appoved the bow feats, a player could say - I've trained alot with my longsword, so only with my longsword I should be a 16 STR but with all other weapons I'm only a 14 STR.

 

[sukael]

Hey Guys, I've got 2 questions:
1. Is there a feat that allows one to do something similar to power attack with a bow?
2. Are there any feat combinations, PC, races that makes an archer keep up with the damage dealing potential of a melee fighter?
Cheers,
Sam

2. A goliath (Races of Stone), using a greatbow (exotic weapon, Complete Warrior). Greatbow normally does 1d10... a size higher because of goliath, that's 1d12 base damage.

 

[DanMcS]

2. A goliath (Races of Stone), using a greatbow (exotic weapon, Complete Warrior). Greatbow normally does 1d10... a size higher because of goliath, that's 1d12 base damage.

A 1d8 weapon sizes up to 2d6 (or 1d12). 1d10 normally goes up to 2d8.

 

[sukael]

A 1d8 weapon sizes up to 2d6 (or 1d12). 1d10 normally goes up to 2d8.

Oh. Huh, guess that combo is even better than I thought.

 

[irdeggman]

Well isn't that what Wf/Wsp/GWf/GWsp etc... are for. Don't these feats represent months/years of specialized traning in a given weapon.

Using the same line of reasoning, if you appoved the bow feats, a player could say - I've trained alot with my longsword, so only with my longsword I should be a 16 STR but with all other weapons I'm only a 14 STR.

Actually there is no "time" for training in D&D.

The only mention of it (time) is in the optional training rules 197+ of the DMG.

There is no minimum time required to advance a level - which is the crux of the default rules not having any time requisite for training.

But the logic of applying this type of feat to specific melee weapons is sound, since the door is opened. . . . Each weapon has a unique (some related) muscle group associated with it.

 

[librarius_arcana]

Well isn't that what Wf/Wsp/GWf/GWsp etc... are for. Don't these feats represent months/years of specialized traning in a given weapon.

Using the same line of reasoning, if you appoved the bow feats, a player could say - I've trained alot with my longsword, so only with my longsword I should be a 16 STR but with all other weapons I'm only a 14 STR.

No not at all, you don't know archery dude,