Bracers of Striking & weapon adjustment spells

[Pielorinho]

Y'know, looking at magic fang and magic weapon spell descriptions, I'm inclined to agree with AGGEMAM:

Magic Weapon:

Magic weapon gives a weapon a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls.

Magic Fang:

Magic fang gives one natural weapon of the subject a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls.

Since magic fang can only affect natural weapons, surely it's affecting weapons? In which case, magic weapon oughtta be able to affect them as well?

If the ruling is that magic weapon should be able to affect natural weapons, I'll immediately houserule it away; but looking at the spells, I think AGGEMAM is technically correct.

That would mean that you couldn't cast magic weapon ont he bracers, since they're not a weapon; but you could cast it on the fists, since they're a (natural) weapon.

Daniel

 

[Caliban]

There is the category of weapons in general, and manufactured weapons and natural weapons are subsetsw of the weapon category.

Most feats apply to "weapons" in general, but spells seem to apply to one or the other of the subcategories.

From the D&D FAQ:

Since unarmed attacks also count as weapons, the
manifester's body can also be subject to the metaphysical
weapon power right? If so, would the entire body of the
manifester glow with pale silver radiance?


The metaphysical weapon power works on weapons, not
creatures. You cannot use the power on a creature to give its unarmed attacks or natural weapons an enhancement bonus.

You can, however, use the power on intelligent weapons,
which are creatures of the construct type. You cannot use
metaphysical weapon on constructs that are not intelligent
weapons. If you do use metaphysical weapon on an intelligent
weapon, the bonus from the power does not stack with the bonus the weapon already has, or with any other bonus that might be applied to the weapon.

In this case the question is regarding a psionic power, but it would be identical in the case of a similar spell (such as Greater Magic Weapon).

The spell is intended to affect a weapon, not part of a creatures body.

 

[Pielorinho]

There is the category of weapons in general, and manufactured weapons and natural weapons are subsetsw of the weapon category.

Most feats apply to "weapons" in general, but spells seem to apply to one or the other of the subcategories.

Caliban, I agree with you that this is how it should work, but is there anything in the written rules to support this?

It looks to me like WOTC may have used the term "weapon" a little sloppily: in some places, the word includes natural weapons, and in other places, it doesn't.

It'd be nice if there were a category in the rules called "manufactured weapons"; spells like magic weapon oughtta apply only to manufactured weapons and ammunition. But I'm not seeing that category in the rules as written.

Nevertheless, I wholly agree that the designers intended for MW and GMW to apply only to manufactured weapons. They just forgot to specify that, as near as I can tell.

Daniel

 

[AGGEMAM]

Nevertheless, I wholly agree that the designers intended for MW and GMW to apply only to manufactured weapons. They just forgot to specify that, as near as I can tell.

My thoughts excately.

And when caliban says manufactured weapon he off course means anything that is not natural weapons.

 

[Caliban]

My thoughts excately.

And when caliban says manufactured weapon he off course means anything that is not natural weapons.

I mean manufactured weapons as defined on page 7 of the Monster Manual.

 

[kreynolds]

I mean manufactured weapons as defined on page 7 of the Monster Manual.

Which is what AGGEMAM meant, since you mean this, and this means what he meant, which means what you meant, which means....well...basically there's just a whole lot of meaning going around.

 

[AGGEMAM]

I mean manufactured weapons as defined on page 7 of the Monster Manual.

Yes, and since the term manufactured weapons exists, it would have been logical to put it in MW/GMW description. However, since it is not the only conclusion can be that MW/GMW extends its benefits to both, at least by the book.

The intent we agree on but this is not the house rule forum so MW/GMW applies to natural weapons as well as manufactured weapons until an errata is issued on this.

 

[Pielorinho]

I mean manufactured weapons as defined on page 7 of the Monster Manual.

Good call, Caliban -- I didn't realize this was defined anywhere!

It seems obvious to me that the word "manufactured" got left out of the MW and GMW descriptions; hopefully they'll put it in in the next errata.

Daniel

 

[Caliban]

Yes, and since the term manufactured weapons exists, it would have been logical to put it in MW/GMW description. However, since it is not the only conclusion can be that MW/GMW extends its benefits to both, at least by the book.

The intent we agree on but this is not the house rule forum so MW/GMW applies to natural weapons as well as manufactured weapons until an errata is issued on this.

The spirit of the rules is every bit important as the letter of the rules. This is NOT a house rule, it is the obvious intent of the rule.

You acknowledge the obvious intent of the rules, yet choose to ignore it in favor of a more powerful interpretation. You are wrong.

 

[kreynolds]

You acknowledge the obvious intent of the rules, yet choose to ignore it in favor of a more powerful interpretation.

LOL Why do I find this so damned ironically funny!?!

You are wrong.

That'll win an argument any day.

(I got 10 bucks that says he doesn't take a joke and gets pissed off )