D&D 5E Brainstorming a new Rage mechanic

[Xeviat]

Hi everyone. Since way back in 3E, I never liked barbarians having limited uses of rage per day. I always thought rages should be limited in another way, such as by their penalties or some sort of requirement. I never liked the idea of a barbarian "deciding" to rage; it always gave me the image of a polite barbarian cleaning their monocle and saying "no, I think it's not time to rage".

D&D has kept Rage as a daily limited mechanic ever since. I don't particularly want to see it as a short rest mechanic either. Pathfinder, though, had it as a number of rounds per day, and let you toggle it on and off. That was interesting.

Pathfinder 2, though, has made it functionally unlimited:

Pathfinder 2 SRD
Rage
Barbarian Concentrate Emotion Mental
Source Core Rulebook pg. 84
Requirements You aren’t fatigued or raging.
You tap into your inner fury and begin raging. You gain a number of temporary Hit Points equal to your level plus your Constitution modifier. This frenzy lasts for 1 minute, until there are no enemies you can perceive, or until you fall unconscious, whichever comes first. You can’t voluntarily stop raging. While you are raging:

• You deal 2 additional damage with melee weapons and unarmed attacks. This additional damage is halved if your weapon or unarmed attack is agile.
• You take a –1 penalty to AC.
• You can’t use actions with the concentrate trait unless they also have the rage trait. You can Seek while raging.

After you stop raging, you lose any remaining temporary Hit Points from Rage, and you can’t Rage again for 1 minute.

For those not familiar with Pathfinder 2, "agile" is a weapon trait that makes second and third attacks in a round have a lower attack penalty; pathfinder 2 operates on a 3 action system, and multiple attacks normally have a -5 cumulative penalty. The limit on agile weapons limits them stacking that additional damage more on extra attacks and keeps them with bigger more thematic weapons.

Looking at 5E, the low level (level 1-8) +2 damage is only equal to the fighter/paladin/ranger's Duelist. It's better than Great Weapon Fighting (greatsword 8.33 vs greatsword 9 with rage, but 8.5 with greataxe), but I think that's just because Great Weapon Fighting isn't that great. Once we hit level 9, we're very close to level 11 and get into competing with 2nd Extra Attack, Improved Divine Smite, and Ranger's 11th level archetype feature. Brutal Critical at 9th isn't a huge damage boost either, unless you're getting more crit bonuses from somewhere.

But, resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage is a big benefit. Pathfinder 2's temp HP is a much smaller benefit. Weighing the barbarian's Damage Resistance against, say, the Paladin's Lay on Hands or the Fighter's Second Wind is a lot harder.

So, how would you go about changing rage to not be limited to X/day?

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Just spitballing, but it seems like you could redo rage so you automatically rage when you take X amount of damage, but you need to take Y amount of damage to keep the rage going, where X and Y vary by level (and Y is smaller than X, but maybe not by much) and there is no other way to enter rage. That should divorce it from time.

I would power up the rage benefits (maybe give all rages the retaliation power that berserkers have at level 14 and give berserkers some kind of brutal display ability to cause fear in a group of enemies), since you are losing some control.

 

[Minigiant]

You could make it rely on a Charisma save.

After you rage, you make a DC 10 Charisma save to be able to rage again. Each time you succeed this check, it increases by 5. After a long rest, the DC resets to 10.

At level 6, you can add your proficiency to the check.
At level 12, you can add double your proficiency to the check.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I know I already posted my take on this, but I'll copy it here:

The sting from your foes' attacks fuel the mighty fury that burns within you. Each time an hostile creature hit you for 5 damage (after resistances, immunities or damage reduction) or more, mark a level of rage. You can also use your reaction to mark a level of rage when you fail a saving throw or an ability check. The levels of rage are cumulative. Your rage lasts for 1 minute. It ends and reset to 0 level of rage early if you are knocked unconscious or if your turn ends and you haven't attacked a hostile creature since your last turn or taken damage since then. You can also end your rage on your turn as a bonus action.

1. You have advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throws.

2. Your melee attacks using your Strength deals +3 damage

3. You have resistance to Bludgeoning, Slashing and Piercing damage

4. Your melee attacks using your Strength deals +5 damage

5. After a hit from a melee attack using your Strength, the target's speed is reduced by 15 feet until the end of its next turn

6. Once per turn, after you hit an hostile creature with a melee attack using your Strength, you deal damage equals to half the damage you did on your damage roll to every creature within 5 feet.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

I thought that the 3.5 Unearthed Arcana version of rage, where you are raging whenever you are below half your maximum hit points, was the easiest and fairest way to do rage if the player wants it to be less of a conscious thing.

 

[jgsugden]

Here is a take:

When you roll initiative, you must enter a rage. You may also elect to enter a rage as a reaction immediately after you take damage or are the target of a harmful spell or effect.

When in a rage, you deal additional damage equal to (half your proficiency modifier (rounded down) + 1) when making strength based attacks. You also have advantage on strength ability checks and saving throws. When in a rage, you have damage resistance from slashing, piercing, and bludgeoning damage. Whenever you take damage during a rage, take a rage counter.

Your rage ends when you end a round and are not in combat, or when combat ends.

When your rage ends, roll a constitution saving throw with advantage with a DC equal to 10 + the number of rage counters you've collected. If you fail the save, take 1d6 damage for each point by which you failed the save. If you make the save, take no damage. This damage may not be reduced by any effect and ignores temporary hit points. After you make or fail this saving throw (and take the damage), you discard all rage counters.

 

[Shiroiken]

The best way to have it be unlimited is to offset the benefit with a penalty, just like Reckless Attack does. Keeping the current benefits, I feel one of the following might work:

• You must make a melee attack on your turn if possible; the Rage does not end until after the minute has passed or you make a Wis (Cha?) save (DC: 10?) at the start of your turn
• When your rage ends, your movement is reduced by half and your attacks have disadvantage for the same duration of the rage (won't hurt a lot of combats, but if the rage ends early, it can be punishing)
• While raging, you have disadvantage on all Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma check and saves, and your vision is limited to 10 feet or the nearest creature (whichever is further)
• You cannot trigger your rage, but instead it triggers automatically when you take damage you would resist, and lasts until the end of your next turn; until this ends you have disadvantage to attack anyone other than the creature that triggered the rage (even if it's dead)

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

An easier take:

As a bonus action, enter Rage. If you have an exhaustion level, you must make a Con check against a DC of 10+2 per exhaustion level to enter rage. While raging, you gain the following benefits:

• Gain 2d6+level THP
• Attacks with Str deal +2/4/6 damage
• Advantage on Str saves and checks
• Disadvantage on Wis/Cha/Int ability check.
• Cannot cast spell or maintain concentration on a spell or effect.
• last for 1 minutes or until you drop to 0 hp.

After the rage end, you are winded for 1 minute. While winded, your speed is halved, you have disadvantage on all ability checks and you cannot rage.

 

[Xeviat]

I don't think it needs any complicated mechanics to enter it or sustain it. Half damage is cool, but the amount of healing that would require to sustain would be a drain on the party.

As I pointed out, early on, the damage portion can be balanced against Fighting Style. Any damage resistance or temp HP can be balanced against Rage's own penalties and against the Fighter's second wind. Fighters are getting 3x(5.5+level) extra hp per day, while Barbarians are just getting 1.5x(level+1) extra hp from their 7 hp per level and d12 HD.

@vincegetorix, yours looks like it has potential.

I think the only thing I'd be worried about as far as balancing is a barbarian picking up 1 level of fighter for fighting style and second wind ontop of their stuff, but that problem is already there isn't it?

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

think the only thing I'd be worried about as far as balancing is a barbarian picking up 1 level of fighter for fighting style and second wind ontop of their stuff, but that problem is already there isn't it?

Second Wind doesnt not scale that well, and with the barbarian d12 HD + (lets say) 2d6 + level per rage, I dont think that SW would make that much of a difference. Fighting Style could be at worst a few more damage, so a player with 1 level of fighter (which delay extra attack) would no gain much.

Now, a fighter with an at-will rage thru a barb 1 level dip could be frustrating, but If we me make the thp and damage boost scale per barbarian level and not class level, it wouldnt be that much.