D&D 5E Bravely running away

[Shiroiken]

Something to consider is what the party is running away from. Most beasts/monsters aren't likely to give chase, unless they're particularly hungry or have some other motivation to do so. Intelligent monsters might give chase if the party is deep within their lair, but otherwise most will just be happy to have survived the encounter (again, unless they have a motivation that states otherwise).

As for how we handle it mechanically, we play on a grid. The edge of the board is generally considered the end of combat, so once the PCs are off the map, they escape. The enemy might give chase, but that moves away from combat rules. IME, it's not unheard of for a PC to stay behind long enough for the rest to make an escape, but it's not very common.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

FATE has concession rules which are similar to this. You just declare that you are conceding the battle. That could be surrendering or retreating but it also means to lose something valuable. It could be a fallen party member(usually not), the mcguffin, the upper hand, surprise etc…

If you want to keep retreat as a practical option, I'd recommend 13th Age's Flee rules. The DMG chase rules seem like they'd end up with the fleeing party getting almost immediately caught :'(

Fleeing is a party action. On any PC’s turn, any player can propose that all the characters flee the fight. If the players agree they successfully retreat, carrying any fallen PCs away with them. The party suffers a campaign loss- this can mean that the sacrificial victim gets sacrificed, characters lose valuable items, or otherwise valuable time or goals are lost.
The point of this rule is to make retreating interesting on a story level, rather than a tactical choice that rarely succeeds.

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[Nefermandias]

If you're fleeing and things are that bad, you're trying to save your own lives first and foremost. Stopping to pick up or drag the fallen will get you killed. Leave them.

The player have a choice of either leaving them and surviving or trying to drag them along and risk being killed. This is a feature of a roleplaying game, not a bug.

It's really puzzling that people sometimes bring up arguments like that: "Well, (insert rule) sucks because it forces the players to take decisions which have lasting consequences"

Don't know, maybe it's just my age showing.

 

[aco175]

Some of the PC fleeing and my not pursuing them will depend on the reason they choose to flee. If the challenge was my fault as a DM or if they chose to get in over their heads. I might design a combat wrong or fail to think of something important and the combat is my fault. If the players choose to go a bridge too far and get in over their heads, then it is their fault.

I generally have a rule where you get off the rid, you can all flee together. I have had a 2 step flee for monsters if they are going to warn others to give a chance to get them before they are gone. Say the PCs are all fighting and one goblin jumps up to run to the entrance at the back of the cave. The players want to kill him before he warns the others so I have one move where he it going to the other cave. A bit like stopping at a door to open it even though opening a door is a bonus action. If the PCs do not get him in this chance he is gone.

I have also tried having a hide check once fleeing if I want monsters chasing the PCs. I'll have a group Stealth check DC10 to hide for 10 minutes and decide what to do. This allows for the cleric to cast the 10 minute heal spell and others to drink potions and such.

 

[ezo]

So, to other DMs, if in the middle of combat players decide they should retreat, how would you run it?

It is very situational depending on what the enemy would do. How weak is the enemy? Would they risk further injury or even death in the chase or just let the PCs go?

It is pretty rare unless there is a fairly significant speed difference for one group to be able to flee from another. As such, it is one of the reasons most combats in D&D result in fights to the death or surrender. Fleeing usually simply isn't a valid option.

Fleeing Failed Example 1:
Friday I had two sahuagins attempt to flee the PCs wihle underwater. One PC has a ring of swimming, so swim 40 speed (same as the sahuagin) and another has gloves of climbing and swimming so can swim at 30. In order to avoid death, the sahuagins had to Disengage, and then moved 40 feet. On the PCs' turn, one was able to swim 40 feet to engage and attack. The other was able to swim 30, Cunning Action Dash for the remaining 20 and actually head them off before attacking. The two attacks killed one sahuagin, so the other surrendered and offered up info to get its life spared...

Fleeing Failed Example 2:
The party was being attack by two manticores. Despite their efforts to use their spikes and straff the PCs, the PCs did enough damage to down one and injure the second, who tried to flee. Slow fliers with 50 fly speed, the manticore, despite moving and Dashing, was unable to escape the range of the PCs' long range with bows, heavy crossbows, and spells.

Likewise, the PCs know RAW fleeing isn't an option. You won't escape generally unless you have mitigating circumstances, such as darkness and can hide or something so you can be much faster or slow the enemy pursuing you down. Anyway, players seem to recognize this, so it is fight to the death or surrender.

Retreat/fleeing is only possible if the enemy basically is content to let them go.

 

[S'mon]

How do your players flee from attackers? What rules do you use?

If there is a pursuit I'll use opposed checks in 3e/4e/5e & similar. Eg Athletics & CON.

 

[S'mon]

As for how we handle it mechanically, we play on a grid. The edge of the board is generally considered the end of combat, so once the PCs are off the map, they escape. The enemy might give chase, but that moves away from combat rules.

Yes that's how I do it. I find it a bit odd that some groups apparently think of the whole game world as divided up into a combat grid.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Players can't see what the DM sees. They don't know that they are outmatched unless you make it clear. Players absolutely will retreat if they understand the situation, but this never happens unless the DM telegraphs what is clear to the DM but invisible to the players.

Also you have to do something narratively about why on earth the enemies don't just follow the players and kill them as they run, because the 5e game mechanics don't enable running away against enemies who are motivated to follow.

Edit to better answer the original question, I've had better success with encouraging outmatched players to negotiate a surrender (which can have really interesting story implications) instead of making them choose between a TPK or dragging out an entire gaming session with painfully boring chase scene.

I would use different initiative rules (roll every turn to start) to deal with the mechanical problem. Circumstances also matter. Is there terrain, or are running across Planet Bowling Ball? Does it make logical sense for the pursuing party to leave the combat area and run flat out after the others? Perhaps they have their own wounded to tend, or are tired from battle and would rather fire off some shots at those who flee than engage in a full sprint that may encounter a reserve element.

The trouble here is a lack of mechanical granularity coupled with not focusing on setting logic. House rules or a change in perspective (preferably both) are in order IMO.

 

[Micah Sweet]

This is something I have been thinking on lately, as there's been a couple of times of late I'd have wished our party beat a hasty retreat (we actually did a retreat tonight - my Warlock used Scatter to get the party out of a bad situation so we could plan, heal, buff and retry from a better prepared position).

I've been thinking about using a "Retreat Declaration". When one side or the other decides to beat feet, they declare a group action to retreat. I don't have a process yet, but it would probably be some sort of group skill check - party describes how they want to evade, makes a skill check with appropriate skill and if 3/4 or so of the group make it, they pull back to a safe distance. Not sure what to do in case of failure, but may leave that open to the DM resolving it - loss of hp, HD, or some sort of expenditure to ensure a fail-forward escape, or possible re-engagement by the enemy. Whatever fits.

I would like to be able to apply it to either side, so NPCs could attempt an escape if overwhelmed by PCs (anything that helps prevent a slog of chewing through unnecessary hit point pools). I'd encourage players to let fleeing enemies go in most cases on a tit-for-tat sort of scale ("If you let no-name NPCs flee the area, I promise they won't show back up and if you need to do the same, I'll allow for the party to bug out if needed without likewise being chased down"). If the situation were to change for any reason (the room has sentries that will go run for reinforcements, it's a named plot NPC or otherwise), I'd call it out that escape rules are changing so the party would be aware of it (Somewhat reminding me of Destiny 2's "Respawn restricted" warning indicating you've reached a crucial part of the story/adventure).

Not a fan of those kinds of context-sensitive rules personally (too mechanically narrative), but it sounds like it would work for you.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Best way to handle it, IMO, is first to bring up during a session 0 that 1) you CAN flee, and that 2) there is no guarantee that every monster the PCs face will be reasonably possible to defeat. And then, to drive the point home, actually introduce and clearly TELEGRAPH through descriptive language a threat that the PCs SHOULD run from in one of the first few sessions. I've used different means of handling retreat including both in and out of combat turns; but I think I have a slight preference for shifting to narrative chase scenes after the PCs have made a general consensus to run away during or between normal turn order.

Something to keep in mind: There are a wide number of predatory strategies in the real world. Many creatures can sprint or pounce very quickly, but do not have the stamina to maintain those speeds very long at all. There is no reason that I can think of not to extend this logic to a fantasy game world. So maybe base combat movement speeds aren't always the ultimate determinants for whether someone can actually run away or not. Within some reason.

Exactly. 5e simplifies movement too much. You want stuff like this to make sense, you have to take a hand and adjust the rules.