Raven Crowking
First Post
Kristivas said:
No saving throw, then?
Seriously, though, that sounds like a workable solution. So, what happens if you fail the heal check?
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Broken Bones
- Thread starter gogo_jerrick
- Start date
No saving throw, then?
Seriously, though, that sounds like a workable solution. So, what happens if you fail the heal check?
The current version has gone to great lengths to make sure that when PC's are fighting CR-appropriate creatues that deal particular types of damage that they also have the healing resources necessary to repair/restore that damage.
For Example, I don't think there are any (there may be a couple, but not many) creatures in the SRD that can cause Ability Drain that are below CR7; because the party cleric gains access to Restoration at Level 7.
Ergo, if you're going to introduce new forms of damage (Broken Bones) that can be caused by low-CR creatures, you should introduce low-level spells that can restore that damage. For example, something like the following:
Mend Bones, Clr2
Conjuration (Healing)
Duration 1hr/level
For the duration of the spell the subjects bones mend more quickly. Provided the associated HP damage has already been healed, the bones mend at HD/hour of rest instead of HD/8hrs of rest.
If you take 'Brew Potion' you've now got your Skele-Gro.
For Example, I don't think there are any (there may be a couple, but not many) creatures in the SRD that can cause Ability Drain that are below CR7; because the party cleric gains access to Restoration at Level 7.
Ergo, if you're going to introduce new forms of damage (Broken Bones) that can be caused by low-CR creatures, you should introduce low-level spells that can restore that damage. For example, something like the following:
Mend Bones, Clr2
Conjuration (Healing)
Duration 1hr/level
For the duration of the spell the subjects bones mend more quickly. Provided the associated HP damage has already been healed, the bones mend at HD/hour of rest instead of HD/8hrs of rest.
If you take 'Brew Potion' you've now got your Skele-Gro.
Broken bones? Is this the only penelty, you can get? Arrows, can they, if hit in the leg, give penelties to speed or even dex? Or the arm? If the edge of a dagger is left in your... arm (?), can this give you pain and/or penelties? Can you bleed to death, even if you are not gone to 0 hp? When you are fighting with swords, is the muscels which you cut, useless? And what can the cleric heal? If one is around. To make rpg realistic is hard, because if you start saying: This is only realistic, well what about all the other things which can happen. And specially in D&D, because these things are not seemed to be considered, and to do, you've to readjust the hit point system. in D&D, you have your hit points, and the cleric can heal them. No penalties, maybe in extreme cases. This IMO. Other systems have made their rp more realistic, but they're of course also harder to play. D&D isn't the game you've got to wory about such things, even if they're more fun to play.
In the campiagns I've played in (mostly with the same group), we always "knew" that a critical hit would break something. Accordingly nothing could be broken without a critical hit. Therefore we said that anything borken could be cured at once by a cure critical wounds spell.
We allowed for the frequency of criticals and our overall lack of cleric PC's by saying the 4th level spell cure critical wounds could be made into a potion, balm or (house rule) a 'rune stone of healing.' This cure critical spell may solve GoJo's problem of borken limbs. I heartily advocate the use of the heal skill to set the bones however. That's why all of the PC's in my campaign tend to take a couple points of Healing skill.
We also have used, off and on, a way of deciding where a critical hit landed: a die. Sometimes we used a d6, d8, d10 or d12, depending on how crunchy we wanted the game to feel. We assigned a number to each body part arm, leg belly heart or head; sometimes also a hand, foot, neck or wing.... hence the various dice types. A d6 was easy at 4 limbs, the heart and the head. A critical to the head killed you dead. Death was real easy. Too easy, so I tended to move our games towards d8's, and d10's, with d12's for winged beasts.
At one time we used to use a different way of rolling a d20. We rolled a d6 and a d10. The d6 counted as the 'tens' part of the final roll: i.e., if a 1,2,3 came up that was a zero, to which you added the d10; if a 4,5,6 came up you had a Ten, to which you added the d10. This was how we developed different types of critical hits. On a '4, 0' roll, a d6= 4, d10= 0, you had a natural 20, but the "4" meant that the critical was a 'minor' critical that only did double damage. On a '5, 0' you still ahd a natural 20 but it was a serious wound that 'stunned' whatever it hit (like an arm, leg or head- leaving you unable to attack, or move, or perhaps even act). On a '6,0' this was a potentially fatal hit if you took teh critical to the heart, neck or head. The 6,0 also did triple damage, and it broke any bone it hit. This allowed us to get very descriptive in our combats too, in that we could say, "Oh yeah, I disemboweled that wretch." or, "How far did his head fly?" But the detail did take up more time.... and That took up my time when it came to recording the campaign notes.
This house rule was complicated and it frequently ended a combat way too soon. We phased it out when we went over to 3E. Since then we seldom use anything but the normal rule for criticals. On occasion I toss in a die roll to tell someone, "You got hit hard in the leg with that last spear thrust and you are stumbling, your leg feels nearly numb." I use my DM's fiat to add some of the gore factor back in to season the encounter.
We allowed for the frequency of criticals and our overall lack of cleric PC's by saying the 4th level spell cure critical wounds could be made into a potion, balm or (house rule) a 'rune stone of healing.' This cure critical spell may solve GoJo's problem of borken limbs. I heartily advocate the use of the heal skill to set the bones however. That's why all of the PC's in my campaign tend to take a couple points of Healing skill.
We also have used, off and on, a way of deciding where a critical hit landed: a die. Sometimes we used a d6, d8, d10 or d12, depending on how crunchy we wanted the game to feel. We assigned a number to each body part arm, leg belly heart or head; sometimes also a hand, foot, neck or wing.... hence the various dice types. A d6 was easy at 4 limbs, the heart and the head. A critical to the head killed you dead. Death was real easy. Too easy, so I tended to move our games towards d8's, and d10's, with d12's for winged beasts.
At one time we used to use a different way of rolling a d20. We rolled a d6 and a d10. The d6 counted as the 'tens' part of the final roll: i.e., if a 1,2,3 came up that was a zero, to which you added the d10; if a 4,5,6 came up you had a Ten, to which you added the d10. This was how we developed different types of critical hits. On a '4, 0' roll, a d6= 4, d10= 0, you had a natural 20, but the "4" meant that the critical was a 'minor' critical that only did double damage. On a '5, 0' you still ahd a natural 20 but it was a serious wound that 'stunned' whatever it hit (like an arm, leg or head- leaving you unable to attack, or move, or perhaps even act). On a '6,0' this was a potentially fatal hit if you took teh critical to the heart, neck or head. The 6,0 also did triple damage, and it broke any bone it hit. This allowed us to get very descriptive in our combats too, in that we could say, "Oh yeah, I disemboweled that wretch." or, "How far did his head fly?" But the detail did take up more time.... and That took up my time when it came to recording the campaign notes.
This house rule was complicated and it frequently ended a combat way too soon. We phased it out when we went over to 3E. Since then we seldom use anything but the normal rule for criticals. On occasion I toss in a die roll to tell someone, "You got hit hard in the leg with that last spear thrust and you are stumbling, your leg feels nearly numb." I use my DM's fiat to add some of the gore factor back in to season the encounter.
Raven Crowking
First Post
Pyrex said:
I agree with you that, IF you accept the CR/LVL premise of the game's set-up, THEN your conclusion is correct. However, one might also suggest that the -2 penalty is no more than a minor circumstance penalty at best, and would be a reasonable addition to a game that is using a "Status Quo" set-up rather than a "CR/LVL" set-up (as discussed in the DMG).
Raven Crowking
First Post
Morgoth said:
If you accepted the argument, "You should not use the best system you can for X because you don't have an equally good system for Y, where X and Y are related concepts" there would be no game at all. For every X there are always several Ys.
RC
Raven Crowking
First Post
Here's another idea, one swiped from Mutants and Masterminds.
In M&M, when something exceptionally bad happens to a character, the character gains what is essentially an action point. Using this sort of variant system allows for things like broken bones (and other complications) while simultaneously rewarding the player for being willing to concede that level of control of the PC.
Of course, again, I'm not sure that sort of reward is needed....but it does help to ensure that the PCs have resources during critical encounters.
RC
In M&M, when something exceptionally bad happens to a character, the character gains what is essentially an action point. Using this sort of variant system allows for things like broken bones (and other complications) while simultaneously rewarding the player for being willing to concede that level of control of the PC.
Of course, again, I'm not sure that sort of reward is needed....but it does help to ensure that the PCs have resources during critical encounters.
RC
eris404
Explorer
hmmm...I'm NOT the best with designing rules, but I had a thought. Maybe rather than having broken bones and the like do HP damage, maybe it does Constitution damage? I realize that opens up a whole other can of worms, but it does address the cure spells not working on certain kinds of injuries. 
Edit - forgot the word "not" above. Carry on!
Edit - forgot the word "not" above.
Carry on!
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gogo_jerrick
First Post
It's not necessarily a balance issue, the pc's deal the same blows......they have decapitated (slashing roll of 99 or 100 after a crit)several enemies that otherwise I had created to be a menace for several more games. They have also beaten enemies that otherwise they wouldn't have been able to beat. They still gain full experience points and benifits from the encounter, even though it was ended in the first round by a lucky hit. I have played in a game with the same varient. My character, in quite a bit of bad luck, lost both arms in one encounter. I roleplayed it that he dropped to the ground and slammed my stubs into the ground to somewhat slow the bleeding. I was found at negative 7 hit points and restored to full vitality. The only way I could gain my arms back was to swear fealty to the party clerics god and through a miracle spell. I had no arms for a game and a half, but it was extremely fun to roleplay an assassin of Illmater. It is a varient....BTW, someone stated thatthe first monsters with ability damage were cr 7 monsters? What about shadow, I love shadows!
gogo_jerrick
First Post
eris404 said:hmmm...I'm the best with designing rules, but I had a thought. Maybe rather than having broken bones and the like do HP damage, maybe it does Constitution damage? I realize that opens up a whole other can of worms, but it does address the cure spells not working on certain kinds of injuries.
It's not a broken bone that causes hp damage, it's a critical hit that just happens to break a bone(or slice a muscle, or pierce out an eye)
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