Broken Bones

[Pyrex]

Circumstance penalties stack with themselves. I have seen multiple battles in my game where individual PC's sustain multiple critical hits.

I've also had adventures (both as a player and a DM) where it's not convenient/advisable/possible to hole up and rest for a few days.

If you're going to create new status effects; it's only {fair, balanced, good game design} to create balanced methods of removing those status effects.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Circumstance penalties stack with themselves. I have seen multiple battles in my game where individual PC's sustain multiple critical hits.

The fact that circumstance penalties stack with themselves is, as I pointed out earlier, irrelevant. It is easy enough to stack all sorts of penalties and bonuses that don't happen to have the same type. So what? You could get more hurt when fighting? If versimilitude is the goal, then that's a pretty believable result.

I've also had adventures (both as a player and a DM) where it's not convenient/advisable/possible to hole up and rest for a few days.

Yup. Me too. And I've had adventures where the orcs had heavy shields, improving their AC by 2. Same difference.

If you're going to create new status effects; it's only {fair, balanced, good game design} to create balanced methods of removing those status effects.

If the effects are applicable to PC and NPC alike, that means they are fair, and balanced. If the effects accomplish what you set out to accomplish, that means they are good game design. Being removable instantly has nothing to do with it.


RC

 

[Raven Crowking]

Here's another way of looking at it:

Gogo_Jerrick's question equates to "Here is the effect I am trying to achieve; here is what I did to achieve it. Is what I did to achieve it excessive?"

The question, emphatically, is not "Should I try to achieve this effect?"

RC

 

[Pyrex]

If the effects are applicable to PC and NPC alike, that means they are fair, and balanced. If the effects accomplish what you set out to accomplish, that means they are good game design. Being removable instantly has nothing to do with it.

I don't belive that to be true. The 'Broken Bone' critical effect is generally only going to apply to an enemy combatant for a few rounds. The 'Broken Bone' critical effect will generally apply to a PC for multiple multi-round combats.

Extreme example: Would you really think it fair & balanced to equip every creature in the game world, PC's, NPC's & creatures alike with Vorpal weaponry? In my book, the answer is "No!", because while the D&D threat model only expects opponents to survive for one fight it expects PC's to survive many.

Oh, and my suggestion wasn't necessarily that they needed to be removable instantly; just that they need to be removable.

 

[Pyrex]

Here's another way of looking at it:

Gogo_Jerrick's question equates to "Here is the effect I am trying to achieve; here is what I did to achieve it. Is what I did to achieve it excessive?"

The question, emphatically, is not "Should I try to achieve this effect?"

RC

Aye, and that's the question I'm answering. I belive the OP's critical hit system is excessive because it allows low CR opponents to create status effects that can only be negated by high-level spells.

 

[Kristivas]

For setting the bones, I go with this:

DC - Type
10 - Easy; Limb (arm, leg, finger, toe)
15 - Medium; Internal and/or more difficult (rib, jaw)
20 - Hard; Ouch!! (skull and vertebrae)


I know from personal experience a rib is a lot harder to set than your arm, and I know your jaw is pretty darn tough as well. It would take a true master of healing to do any kind of repair work on your skull or spine. I do not allow taking a 10 or 20 on this, either.. as of the delicate nature.

A few days ago, I broke three toes. It hurts like HELL! If I were a 'DnD character' and broke my toes in a dungeon, the adventure is over for me. -2? hahaha! Try -10. I'd have to take all of my armor off, take off my boots, and pretty much use my sword as a make-shift cane to hobble out with. I'd probably throw my armor down and I -might- make it out with my backpack.

I tried going to the grocery store after this little event happen. I didn't even make it down an asile. Would I want my player's to deal with that? No. It bogs down what is supposed to be a heroic game.

Now, if they fell for a long distance or such was necissary to the story, then cool. Otherwise, if I want a dose of life's little annoyances, I'll just stop playing and be the real me

 

[Raven Crowking]

I don't belive that to be true. The 'Broken Bone' critical effect is generally only going to apply to an enemy combatant for a few rounds. The 'Broken Bone' critical effect will generally apply to a PC for multiple multi-round combats.

Extreme example: Would you really think it fair & balanced to equip every creature in the game world, PC's, NPC's & creatures alike with Vorpal weaponry? In my book, the answer is "No!", because while the D&D threat model only expects opponents to survive for one fight it expects PC's to survive many.

Oh, and my suggestion wasn't necessarily that they needed to be removable instantly; just that they need to be removable.

Pyrex,

You make some good points in your last couple of posts. Obviously, it makes a difference if the PCs never stumble across others who are wounded before the PCs met them. Actually, even with simply using the HP system, not running into anyone who's already wounded can strain credibility.

I certainly agree that I wouldn't equip everyone in the world with vorpal weaponry -- in theory, I would hesitate to equip anyone with vorpal weaponry, although in practice I have been known to hand the occasional vorpal weapon out -- but not because it wouldn't be "fair". You are correct in stating that games are intentionally unfair in the PC's favour.

Some of the critical effects bandied about are ones that I wouldn't allow in a game I was running, and might even be deal-breakers in a game I was asked to play in. Running around with two missing arms, for instance, is a bit too Monty Pythonesque for my tastes. However, a -2 penalty isn't in the same class as a vorpal sword.

If you are not requiring that effects be removable instantly, then OP's critical hit system is not excessive because it does not allow low CR opponents to create status effects that can only be negated by high-level spells. Unless, of course, natural healing is a high-level spell in your campaign world.


RC

 

[Cartigan Mrryl]

***--~ Firstly, If this sounds offensive, I pre-apologize ~--***

Alright, i think that a cleric SHOULD be able to heal broken bones. But if you want to make it special, make them make a Heal Skill check, a higher DC depending on the severity of the breakage, THEN casting heal spells. In my games, healing spells speed the process of healing, so a broken bone that has a healing spell cast on it tends to heal improperly. But yeah, you could've made him take 1-2 points of Temporary Strength damage instead. Anyways, i find your way rather harsh, as the whole point of healing spells and potions are to allow a badly beaten party to immediately heal themselves and continue on. Making them unable to properly heal is like sending out a blind archer and expecting him to hit his mark, it's difficult and makes the game extremely difficult.

But the again, this coming from a guy who if you take criticals from a spear you get pinned to something, a club gets a broken weapon, and a sword or axe severes the limb... ^_^; I guess I shouldn't talk. But that's my opinion.

 

[the Jester]

No, I stated that Ability Drain starts at about CR7. Creatures that deal Ability Damage start showing up around CR3 when the Cleric gets Lesser Restoration.

Try the allip on for size.

 

[Pyrex]

If you are not requiring that effects be removable instantly, then OP's critical hit system is not excessive because it does not allow low CR opponents to create status effects that can only be negated by high-level spells. Unless, of course, natural healing is a high-level spell in your campaign world.

My primary issue with the system is that it created stackable penalties that potentially last several days and that they can't be restored faster without the use of high level spells.

In order to strike a balance between the 'realism' that the OP is looking for (wounds create damage beyond hp's and aren't healable quite as simply as HP) and fairness towards the players I posited a 2nd level spell that allowed the Broken Bone status effect to be repaired overnight instead of over several nights.

~reposting~
Mend Bones, Clr2
Conjuration (Healing)
Duration 1hr/level
For the duration of the spell the subjects bones mend more quickly. Provided the associated HP damage has already been healed, the bones mend at HD/hour of rest instead of HD/8hrs of rest. (Similar to converting the damage to subdual)