Broken Bones

[Pyrex]

Try the allip on for size.

There are always exceptions. Generally creatures that deal ability damage are CR3 and higher. Generally creatures that deal ability drain are CR7 or higher.

Also, I'm not convinced the Allip shouldn't be at least CR4...

 

[gogo_jerrick]

My primary issue with the system is that it created stackable penalties that potentially last several days and that they can't be restored faster without the use of high level spells.

In order to strike a balance between the 'realism' that the OP is looking for (wounds create damage beyond hp's and aren't healable quite as simply as HP) and fairness towards the players I posited a 2nd level spell that allowed the Broken Bone status effect to be repaired overnight instead of over several nights.

Sry for being away for so long...... I'm sorry if this sounds rude, but the only way you can receive the same penalty is to roll the same percentage on a d% roll after a crit. In my campaign with my char's ac's, that's rolling a nat 20, and then at least a 15 to confirm. Then rolling the percentage again on a separate critical. That's two 20's, two 15-20's, and then the same exact roll on a percentage roll(above 50). That's 1 in 64,000,000 for the same effect twice for each attack. Hardly a good claim that's it's unreasonable due to stacking effects. And a -2 to attack is not huge considering that it is caused by a huge bludgeoning hit, when a frail and weak wizard can drain levels, especially that a well hidden 10th level hasted wizard can easily destroy an epic fighter with ray's of enfeeblement.

 

[gogo_jerrick]

Aye, and that's the question I'm answering. I belive the OP's critical hit system is excessive because it allows low CR opponents to create status effects that can only be negated by high-level spells.

And that is what happens sometimes. Sometimes that inexperienced orc can land either a well placed blow or a lucky one that deals massive damage to the hero. Do players complain when they land a lucky crit on that much harder foe? No. Do players complain when they take a bad hit? Sometimes. Just because you lose mobility in ONE arm, does not mean that it is such a hindrance that you need to argue it insteaf of role-play it.

 

[gogo_jerrick]

I don't belive that to be true. The 'Broken Bone' critical effect is generally only going to apply to an enemy combatant for a few rounds. The 'Broken Bone' critical effect will generally apply to a PC for multiple multi-round combats.

Extreme example: Would you really think it fair & balanced to equip every creature in the game world, PC's, NPC's & creatures alike with Vorpal weaponry? In my book, the answer is "No!", because while the D&D threat model only expects opponents to survive for one fight it expects PC's to survive many.

Oh, and my suggestion wasn't necessarily that they needed to be removable instantly; just that they need to be removable.

I disagree, when dm's take into account the whole "the pc's here forever, the enemies here tonight" approach, that is when players lose that sense of fear. The fear that their character's are on their last limb. The fear that makes D&D fun. What is the point of battles if it is just rolling dice in turns and accumulating experience. PC death sucks, but it is just as fun rolling up a new character and thinking of ways to make this one better than the last.

I don't think that vorpal weapons should be divied out, but how is that different than a bodak, a death slaad, or a pissed necromancer?

They are removable. Either you leave it and it heals wrong. You magically heal it w/o setting it, and it instanly heals wrong. You set it and it takes months to heal naturally. You set it and heal it magically and it takes a few days. Or you use higher magic.

If they pc's have the ability to instantly heal all effects occured to them, then why don't villains have the ability to do the same. That's why two CR6 Babau's really should be about a CR 12, any effects that happen to one, the other can dispel. If most enemies were as "beefed up" as the pc's, you wouldn't have pc's running headstrong into impossible situations. In a real situation, would you call three people crazy if they charged blindly into a warparty of fierce, raging, monstrous beings? Yes.

 

[Aaron L]

Use ability damage to simulate severe wounds like broken limbs, thats kind of what it represents anyway. Broken leg? 10 points of Dex damage. The only problem is that it takes way too little time to heal up, but if youre going to have access to healign magic anyway, then it dont matter too much. Or you could house rule it to take longer to heal a "natural" ability damage condition than, say, a magical strength sucking.

 

[Pyrex]

Sry for being away for so long...... I'm sorry if this sounds rude, but the only way you can receive the same penalty is to roll the same percentage on a d% roll after a crit. In my campaign with my char's ac's, that's rolling a nat 20, and then at least a 15 to confirm. Then rolling the percentage again on a separate critical. That's two 20's, two 15-20's, and then the same exact roll on a percentage roll(above 50). That's 1 in 64,000,000 for the same effect twice for each attack. Hardly a good claim that's it's unreasonable due to stacking effects. And a -2 to attack is not huge considering that it is caused by a huge bludgeoning hit, when a frail and weak wizard can drain levels, especially that a well hidden 10th level hasted wizard can easily destroy an epic fighter with ray's of enfeeblement.

Well, without a copy of your critical hit system I had no way of knowing just how often Broken Bone occurs. Or what other penalties happen however often on a critical hit.

If you post a copy of your document I could post a more comprehensive analysis.

 

[Pyrex]

And that is what happens sometimes. Sometimes that inexperienced orc can land either a well placed blow or a lucky one that deals massive damage to the hero. Do players complain when they land a lucky crit on that much harder foe? No. Do players complain when they take a bad hit? Sometimes. Just because you lose mobility in ONE arm, does not mean that it is such a hindrance that you need to argue it insteaf of role-play it.

PC's typically don't complain much about damaging crits because there's usually a Cure spell/potion/scroll/wand handy to fix it.

Well, that depends. Losing mobility in an arm is far more damaging to some characters than others. Losing an arm really doesn't mean much to a low-level wizard. However, losing an arm pretty much ends a low-level archer's career.

 

[Hodgie]

That's two 20's, two 15-20's, and then the same exact roll on a percentage roll(above 50). That's 1 in 64,000,000 for the same effect twice for each attack. Hardly a good claim that's it's unreasonable due to stacking effects.

I am no statistical genius and may well be wrong... but I think your numbers are a bit
generous.

So that is a natural 20 twice (1/20), a 15 or higher twice (6/20), a 50 or higher on % (51/100), and then matching that number just generated (1/100).

1/20 * 1/20 * 6/20 * 6/20 * 51/100 * 1/100 = 871,460

So still not likely, but its no 64 million.

 

[genshou]

The campaign in my Story Hour is quite unorthodox. Not only do I include a bodily wounds table, but it is rolled on every time a creature takes damage. All right, stop gasping and staring at me funny. This is a vitality/wounds game, so against heroic foes, it only happens on a critical hit, or when that character is on their last legs anyway. But nonheroic opponents are quickly maimed, including the 20th-level Commoners.

Why am I posting this here, you ask? Well, as part of this system (which is too long and too complex to include in its entirety), I have rules for broken bones and how to heal them, both magically and nonmagically. Check it out:

Broken Bones: When a character’s bones are broken, the penalty remains for much longer than the wound point damage. The character’s bones must be properly set (Heal DC 15) before natural healing can occur. The injured body part cannot be used strenuously until healed, or the process must be restarted. In more severe cases (incapacitation*), the body part cannot be moved at all without breaking the bone again. Broken bone damage lasts a number of days equal to the damage dealt by the attack times eight. If the character is treated with long-term care and performs only light or no activity, each day counts double against the remaining number. Additionally, the following accelerated forms of healing can aid in repairing broken bones:
• Once the bone has been set, fast healing negates a number of days each hour equal to the per-round fast healing rate. If an hour or more has passed since the bone was broken, it must be broken once more and set before an hour passes, due to the healing character’s abnormally fast recovery speed. For game purposes, treat a deliberate breaking of a bone as a called shot with an unarmed strike, that deals lethal damage directly to wound points (you may choose to negate bonuses to damage including but not limited to Strength, weapon specialization, and enhancement bonuses; and monks may elect to reduce their damage dice to the standard unarmed damage for their size category in order to avoid killing their friends ^^). Willing targets are considered ‘helpless’ for this purpose, but otherwise an attack roll is required with the standard -4 penalty for using a subdual weapon to deal lethal damage. This damage unfortunately increases the number of effective days required to heal the broken bone, as normal.
• For every wound point granted by regeneration which is not needed to heal the character, he or she (or it) subtracts one day from the healing time, or by three days if the bone has been properly set.
• Magical healing can also aid in the recovery of a broken bone. For each wound point restored by magical healing which cannot be used to heal wound damage (be it a cure spell, negative energy for undead, or any other ability which instantly repairs damage), the character reduces the number of days needed for healing by two**.

*Incapacitated is a possible result on the bodily damage table. It has the following properties:
Incapacitated: If a body part is incapacitated, it is useless. If the chest or abdomen is incapacitated, the character takes 1d2 points of wound damage per round and is considered helpless. Incapacitated limbs deal no damage, but cannot be used effectively for anything.

**This system is designed for a ruleset in which there are two damage tracks: vitality points and wound points. Vitality points, equal to standard hit points in number, represent the heroic mitigation factor, or "dude factor", which members of PC classes possess. Wound points, equal to a character's Constitution score, represent the body's actual ability to withstand damage. A character's wound point total does not increase with level. In this particular campaign, healing magic either restores its normal value in vitality points, or one-half its normal value in wound points. In a normal hit point system, the tradeoff between "unnecessary" magical healing and reduction of days until a broken bone is healed should be on a 1-for-1 basis.

 

[gogo_jerrick]

I am no statistical genius and may well be wrong... but I think your numbers are a bit
generous.

So that is a natural 20 twice (1/20), a 15 or higher twice (6/20), a 50 or higher on % (51/100), and then matching that number just generated (1/100).

1/20 * 1/20 * 6/20 * 6/20 * 51/100 * 1/100 = 871,460

So still not likely, but its no 64 million.

Yep, good correction. I messed up in my original calculation. Most of these do not happen if you are wearing protective gear (35% for massive crit, 15% for protected individuals)
So it would look like this:

1/20 * 1/20 * 1/4 * 1/4 * 7/20 * 1/100 = 1/1,828,571 (for unprotected individuals)

and

1/20 * 1/20 * 1/4 * 1/4 * 3/20 * 1/100 = 1/4,266,666 (for protected individuals)