Buffy 3/24 (spoilers)

[uv23]

Hmm no posts about it yet. What did you all think? I enjoyed it well enough - it was refreshingly free of Buffy's typical whining and complaining. Interesting difference though between Spike and Angel when they became vampires. Where Angel ate his family, Spike wanted nothing more than to give his mom eternal life so he could always be with her. Granted, Angel was always at odds with his family but still, Spike seems to have become less evil I guess you could say with his transition. I liked the tie in to Angel, with Willow having to take off to LA, though it would have been nice if the shows were broadcast in the actual proper order. Other than that, I still get this vibe like Buffy is dragging on with not a whole lot happening in the interim. I want to see the war. Now please.

 

[Chun-tzu]

Good episode, definitely. But the "Spike trying to save his mom" thing doesn't make sense to me. He was a vampire, his soul forfeit. Why would he give a crap about his mom? It just seems wrong to me. However, they have been at least somewhat consistent in this, with Spike. He claimed to love Drusilla, and Buffy, despite not having a soul. And in both those cases, I could see it, because I considered it a twisted kind of attachment rather than true love. And yes, Spike's attachment to his mom was arguably a bit twisted, but he supposedly sired her for noble reasons, which shouldn't really be possible for a soulless killer.

Also, those studded gloves that Robin was using: were those silver studs? I don't think we've ever had any confirmation in the Buffy or Angel shows that silver affects vampires. Silver was important that time Giles had been turned to a demon, but as far as I know it's never been used before.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Also, those studded gloves that Robin was using: were those silver studs? I don't think we've ever had any confirmation in the Buffy or Angel shows that silver affects vampires. Silver was important that time Giles had been turned to a demon, but as far as I know it's never been used before.

Are you referring to Spike starting to smolder as he got pummeled? I thought something like that, until I realized he was backed up against a cross...

AFAIK, silver isn't of any special use against vamps.

 

[Chun-tzu]

Are you referring to Spike starting to smolder as he got pummeled? I thought something like that, until I realized he was backed up against a cross...

AFAIK, silver isn't of any special use against vamps.

No, I was just wondering if Robin was using special studded gloves to beat on Spike. For example, on the show, vampires tend to get hit a lot harder when they're hit by wooden or flaming objects. Silver bullets are supposed to be useful against vampires (as well as werewolves), but not necessarily in the Buffy mythos.

 

[myrdden]

And yes, Spike's attachment to his mom was arguably a bit twisted, but he supposedly sired her for noble reasons, which shouldn't really be possible for a soulless killer.

I though it was more selfish than noble, but I can see your point. I think it was an attempt to make Spike a more complex character and use it to mirror Woods.

Myrdden

 

[Tsyr]

Remember in season 3, the episode where evil-vampire Willow gets pulled over from one universe into the main Buffyverse?

Willow is freeked out by the evil version, and someone says "Don't worry... vampires are different from who they were."

Angel starts to correct whoever said it, but is silenced by someone else? Right.

See, I've always read a bit more into that than others, I guess. What I've always assumed was meant by souless is that all your ideals of good and evil are turned inside out... but that your basic motivations would be consistant. Thus, Spike, who was a hopeless romantic and cared deeply for his mother, would, even when soulless, still care for his mother (in some fashion), and be prone to falling in love... because it's a core part of his personality that he would do that.

 

[John Crichton]

See, I've always read a bit more into that than others, I guess. What I've always assumed was meant by souless is that all your ideals of good and evil are turned inside out... but that your basic motivations would be consistant. Thus, Spike, who was a hopeless romantic and cared deeply for his mother, would, even when soulless, still care for his mother (in some fashion), and be prone to falling in love... because it's a core part of his personality that he would do that.

Sounds about right to me. It's always been hinted at that Spike has been different, even back in Season 2 by the Judge. And the more we learn about Angel, the more he slightly mirrors the man he was before he was turned.

 

[Psychotic Dreamer]

Why would Spike try to bring over his Mother? Well just becoming a Vampire doesn't instally make someone as evil as Spike later became. Look at Harmony. She was turned into a Vampire and was evil, but was not ever as bad as Spike. When Spike brought over his mother it was not long after he had first became a Vampire. Also before becoming a Vampire he was a complete and total momma's boy. That and the conversation before he staked his mother is what drove him to become as evil as he did. Thats my take on it anyways.

 

[Silver Moon]

I liked the tie in to Angel, with Willow having to take off to LA, though it would have been nice if the shows were broadcast in the actual proper order.

Don't forget, they are on two different networks. Having the episodes air within a week of each other probably took some luck in and of itself. Just be thankful that neither network put in a veto to the crossovers.

 

[John Crichton]

To add to the Spike discussion:

I've always seen Spike as a very tragic character. He was always the heartsick lover type so he covered that up with his Spike persona. Being a vampire has changed him of course but he is still alive which means the Spike persona is the fighter in him rather than the lover.

He killed because he had to but he also did it out of anger and rage rather than any real need (he killed in excess). Plus, any vampire who hunts Slayers has a deathwish or in rare cases is looking for a challenge. And Spike has proven he's not stupid so I would wager that when the lover side of him was not being met he would actively seek out a way to end his pain by fighting a Slayer; an act that would most likely get him killed. It just so turns out that he's not an easy kill because of his motivations which I mentioned earlier.