Buffy 3/24 (spoilers)

[Hand of Evil]

Why would Spike try to bring over his Mother? Well just becoming a Vampire doesn't instally make someone as evil as Spike later became. Look at Harmony. She was turned into a Vampire and was evil, but was not ever as bad as Spike. When Spike brought over his mother it was not long after he had first became a Vampire. Also before becoming a Vampire he was a complete and total momma's boy. That and the conversation before he staked his mother is what drove him to become as evil as he did. Thats my take on it anyways.

Harm was evil to begin with, well shallow, concided, crual, and not very nice. There was no real change, she is not much of a vampire.

Spike was good, he was a poet (bad one) but his heart and soul were good. He is a bad ass vampire. The same could be said for Angel, he was a good guy if a bit of a rogue. Look at the Willow and Zander vamps from the alternate world, they were the right hand vamps of the master!

What I am trying to say is that the amount of good a person is, is replaced by an equal amount of evil when a person becomes a vamp, so the better a person is the greater the vamp.

Spike wanting to make his mom a vamp was evil and really perverted. Sure William loved his mother but he had accepted his mother was dying making her a vamp was evil not an act of love. I know it is a fine line but what did Spike want to do with his mother and Drew? What he has always done, feed, kill, torture, making the world pay for his short comings.

 

[WizarDru]

A good episode, and one that moved the plot forward...but it seemed to be, I don't know, lacking something. The whole connection between Spike's guilt and the First's control was never really clearly established or clarified, which was kind of disappointing. Wood, who has been, until this point, a pretty good character, was little more than a mindless agressor, here.

The wedge between Buffy and Giles is not a welcome one, to be certain. Is this how the series is going to end, with Buffy alienating herself from everyone who's ever been her friend or ally? Not really happy about that. Boy, I'll be glad when Faith arrives, and shakes things up a bit. Mind you, half the cast only got one or two lines this time out, and adding another one back in will only make things a little more dense, but c'est la vie.

And I agree, let's some actual 'war', darn it all. Angel's raised the bar, and the typical Buffyverse style of an apocalypse that lasts twenty minutes and only five people know about is getting old.

 

[Hand of Evil]

I saw something in this one. It is about closing door, Buffy becoming the slayer, alone and distant. Buffy was special because she had a team and worked differently than all slayers before her. She is now becoming like every other slayer, like Spike said. She sees her team as tools, weapons and she will let them die or kill them to do her job. Joss is trying to make a point here I think.

Is next week's show a rerun? It looked like a rerun? Why?

 

[dravot]

Yes, next week's episode is a rerun.

Normally they don't do previews for them, though, and that was confusing.

It looks like the one where Spike is on the hunt, under the First's influence.

 

[WizarDru]

Dravot and I were talking via e-mail, and I brought up a couple of examples of Vamps who reinforce Spike's 'mommie dearest' problem. Remember the episode "Never Kill a Boy on the First Date'? In that episode, we have a delusional psychotic who thinks that he's been blessed by god with the ability to see the unbelievers. After he's been vamped, he still believes it, in a twisted sort of fashion, as he's waltzing through the mausoleum singing "The beautiful, beautful river...". When presented with a crucifix that burns him, he's confused: "Why do you hurt me, o Lord?"

The same theory applies to Xander's pal from the second episode, who gets vamped, but is still fixated on Cordy. His motivation is all twisted around, but that seems to be the idea. The new demon doesn't just have the memories of the original host, it's gots some of his personality. We've even seen that more recently, such as in 'Conversations with Dead People', where Buffy has a "counseling session" with a former classmate, now a vamp and psych major.

 

[Chun-tzu]

By the way, am I the only one who immediately thought of The Friendly Giant when they played Spike's trigger song?

http://www.kididdles.com/mouseum/f021.html

 

[Andrew D. Gable]

Silver bullets are supposed to be useful against vampires (as well as werewolves), but not necessarily in the Buffy mythos.

Well, only against the Romanian nosferatu variety.

 

[Merlion]

I think the whole vampire/soul thing has been handled somewhat inconsistantly in the Buffyverse mainly because of the simple fact that they decide to have central, good guy vampire characters. They've said the a persons soul leaves when they become a vampire but in practice the shows seem to show more that the demon is introduced and becomes dominant...because as you all have mentioned generaly people seem very simliar to their living selves as vampires. and Spike in particular is an issue...he isnt markedly different now with a soul than he's been over the past few months or even year. He became good without "getting his soul back". the only way this would make any sense to me is if when someone becomes a vampire their soul doesnt depart...its submerged. And in fact it seems that the soul acts as a template for the personality and motivations of the new demon. Hence somehow spikes soul gained dominance over the demon...even before it was supposedly "restored".
As oposed to Angel who is actualy like 2 different beings with and without his soul.
Its a problem your apt to run into when you try to make good characters who are of a type of being that is supposed to be inhenrently...and theorticaly perhaps incurably...evil. I just take it as TV inconsistancy to do the story they want to do without dealing with the limitations of the supernatural things they've already established kind of deal.
Although certainly the Buffy shows have done a better job of being self consistent with their monsters and magic than almost any other show I can remember...Charmed being a good example of one that failed to do this.

 

[Enchantress]

I've gotta tell ya, I REALLY loved this ep. ALOT. I especially the fact that at the end, Spike could still say that he loved his mother. Even though he is as bad-ass as they get, he's still a hopelessly romantic momma's boy at heart. My kinda guy.

 

[Negative Zero]

I think the whole vampire/soul thing has been handled somewhat inconsistantly in the Buffyverse mainly because of the simple fact that they decide to have central, good guy vampire characters. ...

or maybe the show just happens to be about the very few exceptions to the rule. "y'know, this never happens ... but if it does, it'd be something to see!" which when you think about it, almost all tv is like that. it isn't about some random averae guy who manages to get into and somehow out of strange situations; it's about that one special guy who all these strange things keep happening to. ... at least thats how i've rationalised tv over the years.

~NegZ

<EDIT>
woohooo 400th post!