Buffy 3/24 (spoilers)

[Chun-tzu]

But Giles? What the hell's wrong with him? Does he think that had the plan succeeded, Buffy would say, "No biggie, thanks for the help," and move on with her life?

His treachery was very, very stupid, and I don't think that's typical for him.

There's a theory going around that there's something wrong with Giles, even if he's not the First. But personally, I don't see any inconsistencies with Giles' recent actions (his constant disappearances are annoying, though).

Giles has always taken on the role of making tough decisions, and accepting the responsibility for them. He drugged Buffy and removed her powers back when the Council ordered him to, to test her. He never had Buffy kill Ben, Glory's shared form; he did it himself. Why shouldn't he have given Robin his chance, seeing as they're in an apocalyptic scenario and that from what they know, Spike was more of a danger than an asset in any way (that's changed slightly, now that the trigger has been removed).

Giles is absolutely right, Buffy has a blindspot when it comes to Spike. Buffy says she needs him because he's their strongest warrior. But not long ago, Buffy told the elders (those guys who gave the first Slayer her powers) to screw off, she didn't need power or strength. Nor has Buffy made any efforts to recruit some extra muscle, like Riley, Angel, or Faith. That's because she's not really in need of more warriors.

 

[WizarDru]

Giles is absolutely right, Buffy has a blindspot when it comes to Spike. Buffy says she needs him because he's their strongest warrior. But not long ago, Buffy told the elders (those guys who gave the first Slayer her powers) to screw off, she didn't need power or strength. Nor has Buffy made any efforts to recruit some extra muscle, like Riley, Angel, or Faith. That's because she's not really in need of more warriors.

The hellmouth she doesn't! Let's look at her assets, for a minute:

• A Construction Foreman with Demon-hunting experience
• A former vengenance demon cum whiner
• A witch, self-limited due to unstable nature of her powers
• One of the few remaining Watchers
• A high-school principal with martial arts training and a lot of smarts
• A rogue, lovesick vampire with a soul
• A gaggle of high-school girls with a spark of slayer-potential
• A younger sister with potential, but as yet untapped abilities

We're not exactly awash in raw power, there. A single uber-vamp nearly killed Buffy the first time, and inflicted a serious hurtin on her the second before she defeated it. Giles is effectively a non-combatant, as is Dawn. Xander brings some humor, earnestness and some light combat skills. Anya less than that, now. Willow's powers are better outside of combat than in it, and while she can do some serious mojo, the risk alone prevents her from going full-bore. The potentials are little more than lambs to slaughter, as far as it goes. They, as a group, can take a single newborn vamp...but that's about it. Against someone like Spike or an Ubervamp, they're good as dead.

That leaves us with Wood, who's a better fighter than Xander, and (more importantly) a SMART fighter, something Buffy needs more than raw muscle. The way he set up the fight with Spike was brilliant. And finally, Spike himself, who is certainly Buffy's toughest warrior, but more than a little unreliable.

So, in truth, Buffy has a good support system, but only two real combatants, or three, depending on how Willow falls. Faith will bring some badly needed power, energy and guts back to the group.

Why didn't Buffy enlist the aid of said August personages? Well, Angel is hard to reach and already has responsibilities as "Champion". Further, there's the whole personal issue for Buffy, which is probably just as big a deal, although probably subconciously. Faith...well, she and Buffy didn't exactly part on the best of terms, did they? Add to that the fact that she was being held in a state penitentiary, and you can see why she was out. And Riley? She can't even reach him, reliably. And to have him hang around for weeks, until the First makes it move? Not likely.

 

[Chun-tzu]

Could the Buffy crew use more fighting power? I'd say they could.

But I'd say that Buffy would say that they didn't need it. Buffy was offered power, and she rejected it. It may be that she could detect the darkness in the power she was offered, but it seemed that she wasn't interested in more power at all.

Buffy has also been pushing almost everyone away, at least to some degree. Buffy claims that they need Spike, because he's their strongest warrior. That's a lie.

Although raw power plays a role in things, Buffy hasn't really won against any of the BBEGs through overpowering them. Remember the fight with the ubervamp? That's Buffy's style. She counts on herself, even though she was going in there without any kind of assurance or guarantee or even plan that she'd be able to kill it this time.

Buffy needs Spike because she depends on him. She doesn't depend on any of the others as much as she used to. It seems pretty clear at this point that, to her, Spike is a more important ally than Robin (she outright told him that), and even Giles(!). From Buffy's perspective, what she needs is people she knows she can count on, and that's Spike. It's not about power at all.

 

[Merlion]

Although I think thats dangerous for buffy. her bond with willow giles and xander has always been her great strength...whenever she's alienated them she's usualy gotten her ass kicked. and at least once they have been completely requried to beat one of the big baddies...in the case of Adam and the Enjoining spell.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

That only gets you so far, though. On the original Star Trek, how fast was a 'warp factor', for example? The writers didn't know, either. That's why one episode makes it sound like "Warp 5" is really, really fast, and another episode makes it sound like it's just cruising at a good clip. Internal consistency is an issue for some shows, and it's usually a mark of how much they care about the show's quality. If "E/R" suddenly had the doctors stop asking for a patient's "puls/ox", you'd notice and possibly be jarred out of the story. Most shows in the Star Trek franchise fall into this trap.

Just as an interesting side note - in some episodes of the Orignal Series, the translators in Germany decided to translate "warp" with "sol".
I don`t know why, and especially I don`t know why they changed it during the course of the series...

(Oh, and in DS9, Kai Winn was sometimes spelled "Kai Wunn", as I noticed in the current reruns...)

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[DM_Matt]

Your assumptions about vampires assumes certain metaphysical principles that the show doesnt.

While the show lacks positive/negative energy planes (altohugh it does have light/dark magic), they do have demon planes. There really are no undead in the way that dnd has undead. Vampires are human-demon hybrids. They are somewhat biological, because demons, while not native to the Prime, are biological, and on the show, their physical makeup is close enough to humans that poisons et al affect them.

Regarding their lack of power and their other options, they still are the most powerful they have ever been. They have all the long-term scoobies (Buffy, Willow, Xander, Giles, Anya, Dawn) one souled vamp (they have never had two at once), a human backup fighter, AND the SITs. Not counting Willows rediculous power trajectory, their strongest other moments would have been mid S5. Compared to that, its a trade of Tara for all the SITs, and Willow and Dawn are significantly more powerful than they were at that time. Now with Faith coming (and it wont surprise me if Angel shows up towards the end), they will be far more powerful than before.

Logically, there ARE some better things they could do, but this is a TV show, not real life or an RPG...the characters do not neccessarily do the most efficient possible route, but rather they do the one that is best for the story.

For instance, they COULD try the merge spell again. The merge-being was immensely powerful with just Buffy, Willow, Giles, and Xander. Imagine how strong it could be if it could include the inherant power in the SITs, Dawn ("Green Ball or Universe-Destroying Energy"), one or both Vamps, and Faith.

Also, Buffy is now apparently on good enough terms with the initiative. Realistically, she could find their base (this might actually happen), and say "Hey, flowershop, there is a frickin HUGE nest of HSTs at <GPS Coordinates, directions watever>" and they would probably blow it up. But that A) wouldn be much of a challenge, thus bad for the story, B) against the themes of the show. It would be a traditional male organization solving the issue through brute force (I coudn't care less if they violated girl-power tenets, but many fans would), and it would not be an accomplishment for Buffy or the Scoobies.

 

[John Crichton]

Also, Buffy is now apparently on good enough terms with the initiative. Realistically, she could find their base (this might actually happen), and say "Hey, flowershop, there is a frickin HUGE nest of HSTs at <GPS Coordinates, directions watever>" and they would probably blow it up. But that A) wouldn be much of a challenge, thus bad for the story, B) against the themes of the show. It would be a traditional male organization solving the issue through brute force (I coudn't care less if they violated girl-power tenets, but many fans would), and it would not be an accomplishment for Buffy or the Scoobies.

First, I want to say I agree with your statements about vamps in the Buffyverse.

As for The Initiative being involved, I don't think their guns would be very effective against the ubervamps or any other kind of mystical/supernatural army. They are good against individual demons and creepies but they aren't like a massive military force that can eliminate any threat, that's what Slayers are for. I'm betting that a dozen ubervamps could take out a whole force of the initiative. But I could be wrong as we don't have a ton of info on either.

 

[DM_Matt]

Oops, I meant to refer to the Bringers, not the Ubervamps. I dont think that if an army of them is actually unleashed there is ANYTHING that can stop them through force.

 

[John Crichton]

Oops, I meant to refer to the Bringers, not the Ubervamps. I dont think that if an army of them is actually unleashed there is ANYTHING that can stop them through force.

True, true.

And is it just me or do the Bringers seem like the Season 7 version of Stormtroopers?

 

[Merlion]

Your assumptions about vampires assumes certain metaphysical principles that the show doesnt.

While the show lacks positive/negative energy planes (altohugh it does have light/dark magic), they do have demon planes. There really are no undead in the way that dnd has undead. Vampires are human-demon hybrids. They are somewhat biological, because demons, while not native to the Prime, are biological, and on the show, their physical makeup is close enough to humans that poisons et al affect them.

thats all well and good...accept they have said that they ARE Undead, that they dont breath, their hearts dont beat, cant eat normal food etc etc. So why should poisons and drugs affect them?
And that still doesnt address the spike being good without a soul inconsistencies.