Buffy 3/24 (spoilers)

[WizarDru]

Or maybe the show just happens to be about the very few exceptions to the rule. "y'know, this never happens ... but if it does, it'd be something to see!" which when you think about it, almost all tv is like that. it isn't about some random averae guy who manages to get into and somehow out of strange situations; it's about that one special guy who all these strange things keep happening to. ... at least thats how i've rationalised tv over the years.

That only gets you so far, though. On the original Star Trek, how fast was a 'warp factor', for example? The writers didn't know, either. That's why one episode makes it sound like "Warp 5" is really, really fast, and another episode makes it sound like it's just cruising at a good clip. Internal consistency is an issue for some shows, and it's usually a mark of how much they care about the show's quality. If "E/R" suddenly had the doctors stop asking for a patient's "puls/ox", you'd notice and possibly be jarred out of the story. Most shows in the Star Trek franchise fall into this trap.

 

[Hand of Evil]

What was behind the story of this one is that Spike sees Buffy as his mom! That he has a image of the perfect woman in his head (or did) and that was mom and when no one can live up to that image he is cruel.

It is also of note how long Spike was under the control of his sire, Drew, who is crazy by anyones standards. That really could of been real helpful to Spike mind set. Remember how Spike took take of her when she was weak, just like mom. He has only come into his own being with Buffy.

 

[Merlion]

My problem with Spike(or actualy with some of how spike has been handled..I love the character) is that he became good before he got his soul back. Now part of its probably because I am deeply rooted in the old vampire legends where vampires are evil lifesucking undead and not at all romantic...and also essentialy ireedemable. However I can see the whole getting the soul back/becoming good angle as with Angel. But Spike stopped being evil and started being good before he got his soul back...while he was still the "demon"(the overuse of that word is another of my few pet peeves with the buffyverse much as I love it). They've stated that the soul leaves when a person becomes a vampire. but to me its jarring then because aparently Spike's "demon" became good...and decided to reclaim Spikes soul. but then their was no real change in his personality. thats been in others to...people seem to be some times almost identical to their living selves as vampires(Harmony is a good example).
Related to this are a couple little technical nitpicks. Tasers should not work on vampires...their bodies are DEAD their nervous systems no longer function(and the buffyverse HAS stated that vampires dont breath no heartbeat etc). Likewise poisons and drugs that are not supernatural should have no effect on a vampires undead body...they have no metablisom. If they dont have a reflection they shouldnt show up on camera's either. and Angel actualy SHOULD have a reflection since he has a soul.
Now of course this is all going by the old myths...and they can do it however they want...but I find the taser/poison thing inconsistant since they've already said vampires dont breath etc etc. Same with Spike. Although as I said before Buffy/Angel has fallen into the trap of flauting their own supernatural rules so they can do a certain storyline trap MUCH less frequently than most such shows.

 

[Hand of Evil]

But Spike stopped being evil and started being good before he got his soul back...while he was still the "demon"(the overuse of that word is another of my few pet peeves with the buffyverse much as I love it).

Spike never wanted his soul back, he wanted the chip removed and went to other deamons to get it done. Well, as they say becareful for what you wish for...they gave Spike his soul back in a twist of his words, he want to be the MAN HE USE TO BE, he was still evil and a deamon when he said that.

Tasers I can see as working, they make dead mussles jerk but I agree on the drugs.

 

[Pielorinho]

The Spike/Wood parts of the show I really liked this time (guess i go for those suggestive manly names): their motivations made sense, and their scenes were kewl.

Buffy's motivations made sense, but I'm disliking her character still.

But Giles? What the hell's wrong with him? Does he think that had the plan succeeded, Buffy would say, "No biggie, thanks for the help," and move on with her life?

His treachery was very, very stupid, and I don't think that's typical for him.

Daniel

 

[shadoe]

Where is it said that vampires don't have a metabolism in Buffy? In fact it is strongly suggested by the show and the mythology that they do have a metabolism because they have to drink blood.

 

[Merlion]

Spike never wanted his soul back, he wanted the chip removed and went to other deamons to get it done. Well, as they say becareful for what you wish for...they gave Spike his soul back in a twist of his words, he want to be the MAN HE USE TO BE, he was still evil and a deamon when he said that.

Tasers I can see as working, they make dead mussles jerk but I agree on the drugs.

I think that was pretty unclear. they made us think he wanted the chip out...and maybe that was it....but its been implied pretty strongly that that was a play on us and that he did want his soul back.
Yea I can see a taser making them jerk around a bit...but render them unconcious? no I dont think so. Not from mundane electricity.

 

[Chun-tzu]

Merlion, I agree with most of what you said. The problem, from my perspective, is when they decided to make Spike a good guy, and they did this through two gimmicks. First, there was the chip in his brain, and second, having him fall in love with Buffy. The problem is, that neither of these two things are really enough to compensate for the lack of a soul. But the writers made Spike a good guy, anyway, when he should have still been evil (he had no soul!!).

The reflection thing as coming from the absence of the soul is interesting. That makes more sense (but it apparently never occurred to the writers, or else they didn't want to confuse people watching Angel, who would all complain if Angel had a reflection). But on the technical side, video cameras and many still cams (I believe, not 100% sure on the still cams) don't use mirrors.

Did Spike want his soul back? That's actually never been clarified, as far as I know. Spike's first words (something about giving Buffy what she really deserves) were meant to mislead the viewers into thinking he wanted to pay Buffy back. But I've always assumed that Spike knew exactly what he was doing, and got what he wanted.

 

[Merlion]

Where is it said that vampires don't have a metabolism in Buffy? In fact it is strongly suggested by the show and the mythology that they do have a metabolism because they have to drink blood.

It has been stated that they dont breath, they have no heartbeat, and they cant eat normal food...or at least it is highly distasteful. It has never been specficaly stated in Buffy that they have no metabolism...but since they are refered to as undead and have no other physical functions(breathing etc), why would they? and mythicaly speaking a vampire's feeding isnt metabolic...feeding on blood is a symbol for feeding on life.

 

[Merlion]

Merlion, I agree with most of what you said. The problem, from my perspective, is when they decided to make Spike a good guy, and they did this through two gimmicks. First, there was the chip in his brain, and second, having him fall in love with Buffy. The problem is, that neither of these two things are really enough to compensate for the lack of a soul. But the writers made Spike a good guy, anyway, when he should have still been evil (he had no soul!!).

The reflection thing as coming from the absence of the soul is interesting. That makes more sense (but it apparently never occurred to the writers, or else they didn't want to confuse people watching Angel, who would all complain if Angel had a reflection). But on the technical side, video cameras and many still cams (I believe, not 100% sure on the still cams) don't use mirrors.

Did Spike want his soul back? That's actually never been clarified, as far as I know. Spike's first words (something about giving Buffy what she really deserves) were meant to mislead the viewers into thinking he wanted to pay Buffy back. But I've always assumed that Spike knew exactly what he was doing, and got what he wanted.

On the reflection...no they dont use mirrors. but its just been my experience that undead etc dont show up basicaly in anything reflection-like...you cant take their picture or film them..because of the lack of a soul. All those things seem to be counted as much the same. Now your probably right...most would have complained if he had a reflection. Also...it makes one wonder about the nature of the curse. He has his soul back...but he retains all his vampiric powers and vulnerabilites. I guess the curse was crafted to do that...restiore personality and conscience but not mortal life...so he would suffer for eternity.
Like I said a lot of my gripes come from my being so attachted to the older vampire myths...before they become romantized and sexualized....not that its always bad but some times it creates situations which I find jarring when they try to create good guy vampires