D&D 5E Build a Better Psion (Poll)

[NaturalZero]

Honestly, i think the 4e psion is the best starting point. You give the psions a collection of weak, cantrip-level powers that are at-will and a small pool of psi-points that recover on a short rest. The disciplines that you choose are effects that enhance the core cantrip-like powers by spending power points. For example, you could have a mage hand sort of telekinetic ability that is at-will, but then you get branching choices that enhance it's function. Spend 1 pp to lift massive objects for one discipline, spend 2 pp to throw projectiles as a discipline, spend 1 pp to grapple an opponent as a discipline, and so on. As you get higher levels, you get access to more powerful effects that cost more points.

This version gives you the ability to cover a ton of archetypes without falling back on the same old tired spell slot system. Telepathy, telekinesis, pyrokinesis, elocation, teleportation, and so on, as base abilities, all with manifestations that grow increasingly powerful as you level and give you the feeling that you actually have an innate power that is getting better instead of just a bunch of discrete spells that you collect.

 

[Horwath]

let's see.

1-9th level powers
cantrips
psi points that are used for casting, upscaling and metamagic.
no verbal, somatic and non-cost material components
powers known; 3 at 1st level, one extra every level until 10th level, then one spell at every odd level.
light armor proficiencies,
d6 HDs,

 

[Undrave]

I feel like the "spontaneity" and "inborn" nature of the sorcerer, between spells known and metamagic and upcasting fits my head canon for what a psion should look like more than the warlock.

At the same time, Invocations are a good model for Psionic Sciences/Disciplines. I'm torn.

So... a bit like the 4e Psion that would augment his At-Wills into Encounter powers?

 

[Undrave]

Honestly, i think the 4e psion is the best starting point. You give the psions a collection of weak, cantrip-level powers that are at-will and a small pool of psi-points that recover on a short rest. The disciplines that you choose are effects that enhance the core cantrip-like powers by spending power points. For example, you could have a mage hand sort of telekinetic ability that is at-will, but then you get branching choices that enhance it's function. Spend 1 pp to lift massive objects for one discipline, spend 2 pp to throw projectiles as a discipline, spend 1 pp to grapple an opponent as a discipline, and so on. As you get higher levels, you get access to more powerful effects that cost more points.

This version gives you the ability to cover a ton of archetypes without falling back on the same old tired spell slot system. Telepathy, telekinesis, pyrokinesis, elocation, teleportation, and so on, as base abilities, all with manifestations that grow increasingly powerful as you level and give you the feeling that you actually have an innate power that is getting better instead of just a bunch of discrete spells that you collect.

I was wondering what anybody else thought of the 4e Psion. I too think it would be a good base. Your subclass could have an impact on some of the augments you get.

 

[Salthorae]

So... a bit like the 4e Psion that would augment his At-Wills into Encounter powers?

I played 4e exactly 1 time and then got as far from it as I could, so dunno.

I was thinking more in terms of using any spell they know and metamagic to flex them around, but sure?

 

[Tony Vargas]

While the warlock .. is actually a pretty inelegant design.

Heh. In almost any context but D&D, sure, not elegant at all. As one PH class out of a dozen, though, not stand-out inelegant.
(I mean, in 3e, the Fighter stood out as an elegant design, and the 3e Sorcerer was probably about as elegant a caster design as D&D ever saw. OK, maybe it had something to do with the classes they shared a book with. But 5e design, driven by tradition, little-someth'n-for-everyone compromise, and tradition, doesn't tend that way, at all.)

So... a bit like the 4e Psion that would augment his At-Wills into Encounter powers?

I was wondering what anybody else thought of the 4e Psion. I too think it would be a good base. Your subclass could have an impact on some of the augments you get.

4e AEDU (and the psionic encounter-augment variation thereon) wouldn't make a good template for a 5e class. It's way too little to hang a full-caster-equivalent on, far too much for a non-caster, and not compartmentalized like a 1/2 or 1/3rd caster. A Psion design trying to stick to it would end up under-powered and under-versatile compared to a 5e full caster, and for the Psion, that's the appropriate comparison.

 

[Undrave]

4e AEDU (and the psionic encounter-augment variation thereon) wouldn't make a good template for a 5e class. It's way too little to hang a full-caster-equivalent on, far too much for a non-caster, and not compartmentalized like a 1/2 or 1/3rd caster. A Psion design trying to stick to it would end up under-powered and under-versatile compared to a 5e full caster, and for the Psion, that's the appropriate comparison.

Sure, if you port it exactly the same way, but I think it would depend on what the Augments actually DO. If it's just number inflations, sure you'll end up under-versatile, but if it lets you throw different types of debuffs, maybe add a buffing component to your basic cantrips, etc. It could work. You just need to look at the Warlock for the Math.

Maybe go halfway? Your instantaneous effects (mostly attacks) are all cantrips with Psi Point Augments, and the rest of your spell list is mostly utility stuff that take longer than a round to cast or concentration spells?

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Here is a better idea of what I am thinking as an example of a power description. Not balanced or well thought out, just an example of how I would view psionic power descriptions.

I envision 4 levels of power granted at 1st, 5th, 10th, and 15th level. You will stick with the same set of power choices throughout your career.



Telepathic Link (Mentalism)
Action: Standard
Range: 60'
Save: WIS

0PP: You establish a telepathic link with a friendly creature. You are able to 2-way communicate while the link is established. Lasts 1 minute.
1PP: You force yourself into an opponents mind wearing down their mental defenses and setting yourself up for a greater attack. Failed WIS save give opponent disadvantage on WIS saves until the end of your next turn.
2PP: You strengthen your telepathic link with a friendly creature. Until the next short or long rest you maintain 2-way communication with the target, can use their senses as your own, and can share yours with them.
3PP: You flood an opponents mind with psychic feedback. Psychic damage as appropriate for a 4-5th level spell + Debuff on failed save.
4PP: Either a utility or attack usage equivalent to a 7-8th level spell.

 

[Li Shenron]

Disclaimer: I am not really interested in psionics, so whatever WotC decide to publish for it, I won't have much reason to complain.

I just instinctively voted for Warlock because I prefer that that if they make Psion a full class, it better be different and new. If is not thoroughly new, at least based on the least used class template. No other class casts as a Warlock.

However, if psionics represent the power of the mind, I think daily powers is more appropriate. But if they go that way it'll end up not different enough.

 

[NaturalZero]

4e AEDU (and the psionic encounter-augment variation thereon) wouldn't make a good template for a 5e class. It's way too little to hang a full-caster-equivalent on, far too much for a non-caster, and not compartmentalized like a 1/2 or 1/3rd caster. A Psion design trying to stick to it would end up under-powered and under-versatile compared to a 5e full caster, and for the Psion, that's the appropriate comparison.

But you recall that the 4e psion didn't exactly fit the AEDU like the other classes did, right? You have a base power, then you use power points to enhance effects. In a 5e version, the options you get for the effects could scale up across 20 levels and branch out into different things, giving you just as much power or versatility as any other caster. A simple telekinetic mage hand discipline could turn into a force field, a huge grappling hand, a force wave, a gravity well, or whatever, based on what sciences you choose and how many PP you expend. The idea is to take the 4e concept of base at-will + augments and develope evolving lines of powers that escalate the way spell levels do.