building a 13th level mage

[eXodus]

i may well be joining a already in progress 3e game where the characters are all 13th level.

and i must say i have never played 3e that high in level.

but the party is lacking in the mage department. so me being a team player will be playing the mage. wizard or sorcerer i am not real certain yet.

i love the sheer number of slots of the sorcerer but the bonus feats and higher level of memorized wizard spells makes this particular class appealing.

typically i am a big fan of humans as my race. that extra feat and those extra skill points just rub me nicely.

i have yet to play a wizard or sorcerer in 3e at all, and i am a bit unsure on feat and spell selections.

so if any of you folks have any good ideas on feats, spells, and skill choices for a 13th level wizard or sorcerer feel free to give me a little help. i can use the phb, t&b, and frcs for my feats and such.

i would love to hear a little pro/con for wizard vs. sorcerer.

thanks folks.

you guys and gals always rock!

 

[Malin Genie]

To address your last point first: what sort of role do you want to play in the party?

For those who haven't played an arcane caster before, the sorceror is often more enjoyable. You have your selection of spells, and can cast them repeatedly. Choosing which spells to memorise in the morning isn't an issue; keeping your spellbook safe isn't an issue; running out of useful spells in combat isn't an issue as often; having an entire school forbidden to you (most wizards being specialists) isn't an issue.

You want a range of spells of each level: perhaps one or two combat/damaging and the rest utility/general purpose.

If you have played an arcane caster before, the flexibility and item creation potential of the wizard are great - and getting spells earlier is icing on the cake.

 

[StealthyMark]

I'd either go pure Wizard13 or Wizard8/Arcane Devotee5, depending on your character. One key feature of a Wizard is his flexibility. I'd avoid a Specialist Wizard, unless your party is strong on Enchantment Spells (Bard or Sorcerer). Then you could go for Abjurer5/Incantatrix8 and choose Enchantment as your opposed school. In every case, qualify for Archmage (2x Spell Focus, Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft 15 ranks each, 7th-level spells).

 

[Zhure]

My vote's for Sorcerer. Normally low-level Sorc's get the shaft since you can't really take a lot of low-functionality spells (like Sleep).

By 13th level, you'll be able to spot the spells you'll be able to use a lot, and it'll let you concentrate more on using the magic system in-game, instead of figuring out what you want to prepare each morning.

If the search function was up, you'd be able to find numerous threads for "best spell lists" for Sorcerers.

If you want help in that department, ask.

Greg

 

[Elaer]

Remember that at 13th level, the Wizards are going to have 7th level spells, while the Sorcerer is going to max out (for the moment) at six level.

However, with some good planning you needn't worry about the lack of versatility that affects the sorcerer at low levels, and you're one level away from getting Limited Wish, which can do wonderful things for your versatility (at the cost of 300 EP per shot, admittedly). If the party has gotten to the 13th level without a Wizard, it doesn't sound like the game where you need one, and never having played a Wizard before, the sorcerer seems like a good choice.

Some advice:
Figure out one "smackdown" that will be effective and work in a variety of situations. The Incantrix PrC can do wonders for a sorcerer, giving their metamagic feats more bang for the buck than a wizard. The Spelldancer PrC is also a good choice, if you have a high concentration and some good defensive spells.

Don't overload on offensive spells, though it may be tempting. You have the luxery of not having to survive the lower levels with only magic missile as your offense, so you can do that. Take one really good spell that will do a lot of damage to a group of people, one that will do a lot of damage to one individual, and maybe two specialty spells (such as force cage, at the next level, or death spell) that might prove useful.

Figure out what defensive/utility spells you will use (Stoneskin, Greater Dispelling, Fly, Haste) and determine what level you're going to want them. Don't take Haste if your going to take Mass Haste, don't take Stoneskin if your waiting to get Iron Body.

Have fun

 

[Forrester]

Wow, look at all the bad advice!

Specialist wizards cast almost as many spells as sorcerers, and they *always* cast as many of their highest level spell slot as sorcerers. It's a myth that sorcerers cast many more spells than specialist wizards. They cast a trivial amount more, especially at odd levels -- like the one you are starting at.

Specialist wizards also know far, far, far, far more spells than do sorcerers. If you went sorcerer, you'd have ONE 7th level spell and two 6th level spells -- when you got to 14th level. I hope you like those spells a lot.

The wizard will start with two 7th level spells, and if he can inscribe some off of others' spellbooks/scrolls, he'll know more. By 14th level he'll have at least four. Face it, you have a lot more room for flexibility when you're a specialist wizard. When you're a sorcerer, you better make damn sure that whatever spell you learn is good in most situations, because you're going to be casting it *all the time*. Talk about boring! I don't see how anyone could say that pure sorcerers are more enjoyable, when they're casting the same damn two or three high-level spells *every single day*.

And then there are the yummy bonus feats that wizards get . . . and the vast quantity of skill points . . . mmmmmmmm.

Go specialist -- you won't regret it.

 

[Thanee]

Since you never played a pure arcane caster before, I'd definitely go for the sorcerer!

This way you have to deal with spells but once and then your list is fixed, thereby making it easier for you during the game.

A wizard at that level will have so many spells to choose from, that it might get a little tough to decide what to learn!

Besides, the sorcerer really gets good at 8th+ or 10th+ level, so you do not have to go through the tough low-level times!

When you make a sorcerer, the feat selection will (after the spell selection) probably the toughest, since you do not really have so many feats to spend (6 as a human sorcerer).

Here's some good ones:

- Spellcasting Prodigy
- Spell Focus (in your main offensive school, probably Evocation or Transmutation)
- Empower Spell (greater flexibility than Maximize Spell)
- Extend Spell (makes your boost spells last all day and enables you to cast them before resting, so you still have all the slots available in the morning)
- Improved Initiative (if you will be in combat a lot)

The Incantatrix PrC would be a pretty good choice, since it does mix very well with the sorcerer's abilities. The -1 spell slot modifier ability is great with Empower Spell!

Some spells you should consider...

5 5 4 4 3 2

- Protection from Evil
- Shield
- Detect Secret Doors (?)
- Identify (?)
- Magic Missile
- Featherfall
- Reduce (?)

- See Invisibility
- Knock
- Cat's Grace
- Endurance
- Eagle's Splendor

- Dispel Magic (?)
- Fireball (unless Magic of Faerûn spells are allowed)
- Major Image (?)
- Haste
- Fly
- Gaseous Form (?)
- Slow (?)

- Dimensional Anchor (?)
- Locate Creature (?)
- Improved Invisibility
- Dimension Door
- Polymorph Other
- Polymorph Self (?)

- Feeblemind (?, potent anti-magic-user spell)
- Hold Monster (?)
- Telekinesis
- Teleport
- Firebrand (?, Magic of Faerûn spell)

- Greater Dispelling
- Analyze Dweomer (?)
- Shades (?)
- Mass Haste (?, Haste should be sufficient)
- Disintegrate

Bye
Thanee

 

[eXodus]

the party as is consists of a 13th level half-orc barbarian, 13th level human monk, 10th level cleric-3rd level fighter.

the role i was wanting to fill is that of artillery, dispenser of power-up spells, and that sort of thing.

to say i have not played a wizard or sorc in 3e does not mean i have never ever played a arcane caster at all. i used to play wizards all the time in 2e.

thanks for all the help folks.

i really think that a wizard may well be the way for me to go.

 

[CRGreathouse]

If you want to be artillery and buffer, sorcerer is much better. Otherwise, it's a tossup, with wizard usually favored.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

If firepower is what you seek, then an evoker is probably what you want to go with.