Building a Dagger Fighter

[Klaus]

Honestly, I don't see it. The IB gets a form of sneak that, at best, is on par with what I'd get from taking rogue and (with the Daring Outlaw feat) swashbuckler levels. Unfettered Defense is poo, and the other abilities just don't make it seem worthwhile to stick it out. I like the master thrower a lot better.


That late? I'm thinking Daring Outlaw will come in handy much earlier.

It's not bad, but I'd probably just take to Two-Weapon Pounce to get the benefit of moving and nailing a guy with two daggers.

Invisible Blade eventually lets you feint in combat as a free action. Successful feint = sneak attack damage.

Plus, it's sneak attack damage + full BAB.

And remember that Invisible Blade and Master Thrower were, originally, a single 10-level class (appeared in Dragon mag, iirc), but got divvied up into two 5-level ones.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Check out some of the Alternative Swashbuckler Class abilities instead of Grace and Dodge or get the half-official Living Greyhawk Swashbuckler (lots better, bonus to AC!).

Where's that found? I looked in the RPGA section of the Wizards site, but couldn't find it...

Brad

 

[nogray]

Melee and Ranged Weapon Mastery

Since daggers are Piercing and Slashing, would it be appropriate to take both Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing) and Melee Weapon Mastery (Piercing) and have the bonuses stack (+4 attack and damage)?

A similar question applies to Ranged Weapon Mastery. Hmmmm....

 

[Satori]

If you want a more "Punchy" Dagger Fighter, try this.

Fighter 4/Swashbuckler 3/Invisible Blade 5/Master Thrower 5/X 5

Technically, neither Invisible Blade nor Master Thrower require rogue levels, and Invisible Blade skill requirements are class skills for the Swashbuckler. Of course, you need to cross class for Master Thrower (Sleight of Hand), but by level 10 you should be able to make it.

With this build, you get Weapon Specialization, Full BAB, respectable HP, and decent skills.

 

[Legildur]

Since daggers are Piercing and Slashing, would it be appropriate to take both Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing) and Melee Weapon Mastery (Piercing) and have the bonuses stack (+4 attack and damage)?

A similar question applies to Ranged Weapon Mastery. Hmmmm....

Dagger is Piercing OR Slashing, so bonuses won't stack for MWM (Piercing) and MWM (Slashing). A bugbear fighter wielding a morningstar could be interesting though. However, I do recall there is debate about whether it would stack.

Can't comment about Ranged Weapon Mastery though.....

 

[Angerland]

Fighter 4/Swashbuckler 3/Invisible Blade 5/Master Thrower 5/X 5

I was thinking fo one ver much like this but replacing "X" with Rogue. In fact I was going to start out with 3 levels of Rogue.

Does anyone have an example of how MT and IB were laid out when they were on 10lvl PrC?

 

[Legildur]

Does anyone have an example of how MT and IB were laid out when they were on 10lvl PrC?

I thought I recalled seeing the original on the author's web site... but I could be wrong. And I can't remember the author's name....

 

[Psimancer]

1) Does a swashbuckler's insightful strike damage bonus apply to a thrown light weapon?

Yes, certainly. Nothing in the description says it's melee damage.

Sorry dude, I have to disagree with you here... Light Weapon is specifically a melee term:

"...It indicates whether a melee weapon, when wielded by a character of the weapon’s size category, is considered a light weapon, a one-handed weapon, or a two-handed weapon..."

When it is thrown, a dagger is considered to be a ranged/thrown weapon. And it also explains why neither a shuriken nor a dart is classified as a light weapon on the weapons tables or by the rules.

And likewise, Weapon Finesse is a melee-only term.

 

[Felon]

Actually, there are two skill tricks doing similar stuff or was that the stand up trick?

It's the stand-up trick that has some redundancy. Then again, I have also considered levels in Battle Trickster as well.

Telling Blow is a must have

Sorry, just continuing to insist something doesn't validate it. As I said, attacking with a dagger and just crossing your fingers for a crit is weak. I'll take Deadly Defense's consistent 1d6 over a random chance of doing several extra dice every now and then.

No Daring Warrior in there? Too bad, Weapon Spec and upgrade in combination with Melee Weapon Mastery and all that stuff is fun.

True, but a character must have Weapon Spec as a requirement, and I don't have 4 levels to invest in fighter. 20 level builds are pretty much pie-in-the-sky builds. I got maybe 12 levels of wiggle room. Farther than that is unlikely. Slashing Fury, Weapon Supremacy, Bounding Attack...all are likely out of reach.

Forget Combat Expertise. Not worth it for that high hitpoints build. But get all Weapon Focus and Spec and Mastery feats for extra to hit and damage (plus the TWF fun). Rapid Shot is nice but what you really want is Point Blank Shot. Far Shot isn't that necessary if you hit so good.

Combat Expertise is to allow me to consistently use Deadly Defense while Two-Weapon Fighting. There's only so much of a penalty that's worth sucking up.

Daggers have a sad range increment of 10. That means almost any time that I'm not provoking an AoO, I'll be taking a penalty to hit. And the penalties rack up quickly. Again, a lot of damage builds presume certain things going the character's way all of the time (like hitting despite massive penalties, or critting with regularity).

 

[Felon]

Invisible Blade eventually lets you feint in combat as a free action. Successful feint = sneak attack damage.

It eventually offers that, but it's not worth the wait IMO. I can use master thrower levels to do similar stuff and get more bang for my buck. And flanking is easy enough anyway that the cumbersome nature of free-feinting isn't worth the bother.

Plus, it's sneak attack damage + full BAB.

Daring Outlaw will take care of that for me, and offer me some real hit dice as well. And man o man, let's not even get into Whisperknife...

And remember that Invisible Blade and Master Thrower were, originally, a single 10-level class (appeared in Dragon mag, iirc), but got divvied up into two 5-level ones.

Yeah, and they watered down Unfettered Defense so it's level-based, while keeping the ranged-oriented requirements. They did a real hack job IMO.

The free feint is powerful, but for a much lower investment there are feets and skill tricks for flat-footing your foe.