Bull rush as part of a charge

[Legildur]

From the SRD:

Any attack of opportunity made by anyone other than the defender against you during a bull rush has a 25% chance of accidentally targeting the defender instead, and any attack of opportunity by anyone other than you against the defender likewise has a 25% chance of accidentally targeting you. (When someone makes an attack of opportunity, make the attack roll and then roll to see whether the attack went astray.)

 

[Nail]

...and the discussion around our table (years ago now) was:

Using a melee attack to attack someone "in a Bull rush": 25% chance to hit the other person,

Using a melee attack to attack someone grappled: 0% chance to hit the other person.

Huh?

 

[bestone]

...and the discussion around our table (years ago now) was:

Using a melee attack to attack someone "in a Bull rush": 25% chance to hit the other person,

Using a melee attack to attack someone grappled: 0% chance to hit the other person.

Huh?

Yeah whats that about?

I'd at least do the same percent

 

[Joshua Randall]

I love Bull Rush. In addition to all the obvious uses, you can do stuff like...

* Bull Rush a foe into a square towards which your ally can charge.
* Bull Rush a foe into line with other foes so the mage can lightning bolt them.
* Bull Rush a foe near the rogue who can sneak attack him.
* Bull Rush a foe into a corner/wall to limit his movement.
* When fighting weak opponents, Bull Rush your foe near other foes so an ally can get better use out of Cleave or iterative attacks.

 

[pallandrome]

My favorite use of bullrush? Getting baddies out of AoO range from my casters.

 

[RigaMortus2]

...and the discussion around our table (years ago now) was:

Using a melee attack to attack someone "in a Bull rush": 25% chance to hit the other person,

Using a melee attack to attack someone grappled: 0% chance to hit the other person.

Huh?

I think it has to do with Movement vs... not... moving?

In other words, as someone moves past you, by the time you swing your sword and it connects with the intended target, there is a 25% chance that the unintended target accidentally got in the way.

With grapple... I guess you just have better aim since they aren't moving past you.

 

[RigaMortus2]

I love Bull Rush. In addition to all the obvious uses, you can do stuff like...

* Bull Rush a foe into a square towards which your ally can charge.
* Bull Rush a foe into line with other foes so the mage can lightning bolt them.
* Bull Rush a foe near the rogue who can sneak attack him.
* Bull Rush a foe into a corner/wall to limit his movement.
* When fighting weak opponents, Bull Rush your foe near other foes so an ally can get better use out of Cleave or iterative attacks.

I like trying to bull rush someone down stairs or off a ledge, which is very situational.

 

[Slander]

While the charge action requires you to move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent, it doesn't specify that you must stop there.

Alright, if Hypersmurf's interpretation is correct, and I'm not implying its not, I want to be sure I understand the full ramifications. It sounds like the only restriction on movement is during the initial movement of a charge to an enemies position. That movement must be in an unobstructed straight line to the closest square from which an attack can be made. Any movement beyond that is w/o restriction.

So can the following things be done:

1) A Rogue charges an opponent and Tumbles through the creatures square and attacks him from behind and still gain the +2 to attack.

condition a. He proceeded in an unencumbered path from his starting position to the first square from which he could attack his opponent.
condition b. He did not stop and continued his movement through his opponents square (which can include Tumbling)
condition c. He made his attack at the end of his movement

2) Same scenerio, except instead of attacking from behind, he Bull-rushes the enemy in the opposite direction (i.e. back in the direction from which the Rogue came). Rogue still gets a +2 bonus to the Bull-rush attempt

3) Rogue charges an opponent, and then moves to an opponents flank before attacking (i.e. charge to a square South of an opponent, then move to a square to the east of the same opponent).

Is this accurate? It really opens up charge if so ... and not necessarily in a bad way.

 

[Hypersmurf]

That movement must be in an unobstructed straight line to the closest square from which an attack can be made. Any movement beyond that is w/o restriction.

The movement is still required to be 'directly towards' the opponent; this is a separate restriction from the 'clear path', which is where the closest space requirement is defined.

So the rogue can move into the opponent's square, but he can't move past the opponent - how far can a dog run into a forest?

Nor can he move to one side once reaching that closest square; he is no longer moving directly towards the opponent if he does so.

The thing about Bull Rush is that you don't move away from the opponent; you move towards them, and they move away from you. So you don't violate the 'directly towards' restriction.

-Hyp.