Bull rush as part of a charge

[Nail]

If somehow that is not enough for you, the moment you enter the foes space, you have gone too far to make a melee attack with a charge.

Why, if you have not yet finished your move?

 

[Legildur]

Has anyone checked the FAQ and RotG articles, not that I'm a fan of them, to see what they say about Bull Rush?

 

[SlagMortar]

The FAQ has a surprising (to me anyway) amount to say about bull rushes, but does not answer this question proposed.

It does have this to say about charges in general:

When you make a mounted charge, must you stop once
you are in melee range of your target? Or do you continue
past the opponent?
If you don’t have the Ride-By Attack feat, your movement
for the turn you perform a charge ends when you attack. You
must make the attack as soon you can.

That looks like a the FAQ adding a new rule to me.

 

[frankthedm]

Why, if you have not yet finished your move?

Because if you move anywhere else, your action is no longer a charge.

CHARGE
Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. However, it carries tight restrictions on how you can move.

Movement During a Charge: You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.)

If you don’t have line of sight to the opponent at the start of your turn, you can’t charge that opponent.

You can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round as a charge.

If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn.

Attacking on a Charge: After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll. and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.

A charging character gets a +2 bonus on the Strength check made to bull rush an opponent (see Bull Rush, above).

Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge.

Lances and Charge Attacks: A lance deals double damage if employed by a mounted character in a charge.

Weapons Readied against a Charge: Spears, tridents, and certain other piercing weapons deal double damage when readied (set) and used against a charging character.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Because if you move anywhere else, your action is no longer a charge.

If you move anywhere else first, your action is no longer a charge.

As long as you go there before carrying on, you've satisfied the requirement.

-Hyp.

 

[Legildur]

As long as you go there before carrying on, you've satisfied the requirement.

How does this reconcile with Ride by Attack? Does this mean that without this feat, mounted combat is inferior as you cannot continue past the point from where you made the attack? I'd have thought it should be the other way around!

Of course, you still (potentially) provoke an AOO in either case.

 

[Hypersmurf]

How does this reconcile with Ride by Attack? Does this mean that without this feat, mounted combat is inferior as you cannot continue past the point from where you made the attack? I'd have thought it should be the other way around!

The movement occurs before the attack, not after. Ride-By Attack breaks this rule.

In the case of a Bull Rush as part of a charge, the Bull Rush occurs during the movement portion (since you need to move in order to Bull Rush!), once you have first moved to the closest space from which you can attack your target, and the attack occurs afterwards.

In the case of Ride-By Attack, you continue to move after the attack, which is entirely different. Without Ride-By Attack, once you've made your attack, you can't move any further, because the movement occurs before.

-Hyp.

 

[Legildur]

In the case of a Bull Rush as part of a charge, the Bull Rush occurs during the movement portion (since you need to move in order to Bull Rush!), once you have first moved to the closest space from which you can attack your target, and the attack occurs afterwards.

Maybe I'm a bit slow after a long day in the office, but I thought you were saying that on a charge (on foot) that a person could continue their movement AFTER completing the attack for the charge?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Maybe I'm a bit slow after a long day in the office, but I thought you were saying that on a charge (on foot) that a person could continue their movement AFTER completing the attack for the charge?

No.

First, move to the closest square from which you could attack him.
Second, continue moving into his square to Bull Rush.
Third - after you've stopped moving - make a melee attack.

The melee attack occurs after all movement is concluded.

-Hyp.

 

[Legildur]

No.

First, move to the closest square from which you could attack him.
Second, continue moving into his square to Bull Rush.
Third - after you've stopped moving - make a melee attack.

The melee attack occurs after all movement is concluded.

My head hurts.... :\

But I think I get it now.....