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But this baby will take you from 1-30 in half the time!

Ciaran

First Post
My advice is to bypass the antagonistic players entirely. Start your playtest game before the current campaign ends, and only invite those players who are most interested and willing to try the new edition. (Presumably that would be your husband, your son and the Druid's player.) If they don't like it, then you might as well pack it in right now. But if they do like it, then they'll all be your advocates when it comes time to sell it to the rest of the group.
 

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Lackhand

First Post
Grimstaff said:
see my Sig?
I think the OP already had:
Since that time I have been wondering what marketing strategies might work for the various personalities involved, especially given that right now, all I have to show them is the sizzle, not the steak. At this point, I'm not hoping to win them over entirely. A fair playtest with all comments about the system mechanics held until the end of the session is all I'm after.
 

StarFyre

Explorer
hahah

Everyone, I gaurantee that you aren't the slowest gamers ever.

In the campaign I DM, 2.5 years so far..friends just got to level 6 last saturday.

We use a slower progression chart...not as slow as 2E but much slower than 3.XE.

:)

Sanjay
 

I'm confused

If I were going to try to get a group to switch versions, I'd cite specific rules and things about the new system that were better than the old one.

But, you can't do that now because you don't have the 4E rules.

So, my question, is how do you even know you _want_ to switch to 4E? Wouldn't it be wise to see the rules themselves first?

If the rules are good, you'll have more ammunition for getting your group to switch.

If the rules aren't good, you won't want to switch anyway.

So, why not wait until you can read the PHB?

Ken
 

Khairn

First Post
Zinovia said:
Since that time I have been wondering what marketing strategies might work for the various personalities involved, especially given that right now, all I have to show them is the sizzle, not the steak. At this point, I'm not hoping to win them over entirely. A fair playtest with all comments about the system mechanics held until the end of the session is all I'm after.

Even WotC, with all their market research and business professionals, have had trouble marketing and generating consistent buzz about 4E.

I think it was Wulf who said something along the lines of ...

Watching the launch of 4E is like watching a baby kick the ball every time he bends over to pick it up.

So I'd just get the book when it hits the stands, create some pre-gened characters and run a playtest that illustrates some of the features that you think the others would find interesting. If it doesn't catch fire with them, then drop it for a while and try again a few months later.
 

S'mon

Legend
Generico said:
The only reason D&D has always been 20 levels is because a long time ago, Gary Gygax decided 20 was a nice round number.

Nope - the cap at level 20 was a 2e thing. 1e, written by EGG, was unlimited for most classes; spellcasters had their spell slots listed up to 29th level. OD&D also unlimited. BECMI went to 36th.
 


S'mon

Legend
Sitara said:
I was personally hoping the cap would come down to 10 in 4e, instead of going up by 10. Oh well.

Hmm, that should be easy to implement though. I'm thinking of doing it myself; limiting 4e NPCs to 10th, with maybe a few legendary heroes at 11th-12th, and reducing rate of XP gain; probably by 1/2 should work ok.
 

Sitara

Explorer
You are right Voss, it coulds be easy to implement. But...the way the game is designed,mnany of the more fun monsters, powers, maneuvers, etc willprbably be at the paragon level. I have a feeling the paragon level will be themost popular level for people to play ni, and as years go on many people will start of their games at the paragon level. (I think it represents levels 6-14 of 3e)
 

Firstly, since you have an ongoing campaign I would take WotC's own advice and not try to convert it to 4E. Make sure the others know that this is not your intent.

Second, you don't actually have the new game in hand and they certainly don't either. Their exclamations of panic are just that - they fear what they do not yet know or understand and are resorting to the bumper-sticker objections they've heard/read others make (yes there are bumper sticker cheers as well). I'd bet money they couldn't really make specific arguments against specific aspects of 4E.

Third, you're not REALLY selling 4E. You're simply interested in trying it yourself - yes? Which means you sort of need the rest of your group to try it as well so that you can ALL find out if you like it or not. That doesn't just mean try it for one session, it means try it for 6 months to a year to UNDERSTAND how and why it does things, and it means being open to accepting that just because it IS different doesn't mean it's BAD for not being 3E. The willingness to give it a meaningful test drive is what you're selling. The 4E rules will then either sell themselves or not.

I'd suggest that what you need to do is start the conversation AFTER the game session. This means that the discussion does not NEED to be boiled down to bumper stickers because the game session itself is about to start and extraneous conversations need to be quickly concluded. Start talking about it when there's TIME to talk about it and those who just don't care to talk about it are free to leave.

They will likely again barrage you with the same bumper stickers. Simply start by saying that you find the changes being made interesting and that YOU are willing to give it a try. When they object, ask them to be specific about their objections:

"They're dumbing it down!"
"What parts are being dumbed down? Does simplification mean stupidity? A major complaint is the complexity of DM prep especially for higher level games - doesn't that CALL for simplifiction?"

"They're making it a WOW clone!"
"In what way? I don't even see how WOW could POSSIBLY measure up to a REAL rpg like D&D. Do you enjoy WOW? What parts of WOW are BAD for D&D? Are those really the parts that 4E is adopting?"

"It's a ploy to make us buy new books!"
"Don't be an ass. It's a new edition. They're not going to GIVE it away. They will have spent 3 years or so in developing it. They're a company, not a commune. Their entire EXISTENCE is based on creating things that they can SELL. 3.5 will no longer have support from WotC and likely almost none from elsewhere. We can of course continue to play 3.5 if we like, but all the NEW stuff will be 4E. I for one would like to TRY it with an open mind and see if we want to EVENTUALLY make the change or stick with 3.5 until we get called stubborn grognards."

KNOW as much as possible about the changes being made because the bumper sticker objections are almost always blown out of proportion. If they object to some change and you are not familiar with that particular aspect - DON'T just reflexively defend it. Simply state that you AREN'T familiar with it. Ask the objector to explain it to YOU and show you examples. Be ready to show THEM examples. Obviously you're not a prosecutor and aren't going to have a notebook full of talking points - but if you remember having read some particular anecdote that will make your point it's more convincing if you can cite where you read it - a blog, a developers post on ENworld, a playtester, one of the sneak-peek books, etc.
 

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