Buying Feats with XP

[Scurvy_Platypus]

If maintining the carefully crafted mechanical balance of standard d20 System products isn't a concern, then both BTN and PBN are decent point buy alternatives. If that is a concern, then both BTN and PBN will drive you nuts. Trust me

Ah. I think I see where you're coming from. I happen to be of the opinion that rulebooks are really little more than somebody's houserules for a game that are "official" because they're printed and have the stamp of some company on 'em. I've also always been of the opinion that I have as much right to muck about with the rules as any of the official folks.

However, I do understand the desire to stay within the established and common framework of a game, as presented in the rulebooks. Especially if you're thinking of changing some aspects of the game, but want to stay as close as possible to the original, so that people's rule mastery isn't messed with.

I sometime just kinda mourn the Walmart-ization of rpgs, and wish there were more folks doing their own funky things than it seems they are these days. Standarization and similarity does have some advantages (and has always been a strong pressure from a segment of the hobby), but I can't resist championing something like BtN which does try to break out a bit.

It's all good, and I'm not upset or anything. Just feeling a bit nostalgic.

 

[Dragonblade275]

I allow this in my games. My cost is 1/5th the required XP needed to obtain the next level, and a maximum of two feats per level can be obtained in this manner.

I also allow the swapping out of class and prestige class abilities for feats, skills, ability scores, hit points, etc, but that's a very different topic.

Thanks, Sean!

I already allow my players to trade feats for ability scores and ability scores for feats on a 1:1 basis. Thank you for sharing the XP cost per feat that you use.

It's an honor to hear from you on this.

 

[Baron Opal]

This is a really neat system.

Thank you. It worked really well for my game.

However, in this system you'd really be a fool to not take the null levels - at least two of them. Well, assuming that you use the 3.5 standard for handing out XP, that is. Because at level 11 you make up exactly 300 XP just because you happen to be a level behind!

Ahh. I hand out experience based on average team level, not individual character level. That may be why one of my players was disappointed / confused.

I allow this in my games. My cost is 1/5th the required XP needed to obtain the next level, and a maximum of two feats per level can be obtained in this manner.

Not so different from mine. 1/5th for a feat, max two, or 1/3 for a feat, sp and hp. Great minds think similarly, I guess.

 

[kreynolds]

Thanks, Sean!

Er, ~Sean = Not Sean.

It's an honor to hear from you on this.

Well, thanks, but I don't think it's well deserved.

 

[Aegir]

I also allow the swapping out of class and prestige class abilities for feats, skills, ability scores, hit points, etc, but that's a very different topic.

Apologizes for this brief hijacking, but I was wondering if you've got these particular rules documented anyplace? I'd be interested in seeing some of the specifics.

 

[kreynolds]

Apologizes for this brief hijacking, but I was wondering if you've got these particular rules documented anyplace? I'd be interested in seeing some of the specifics.

Not really, no. I figure up the values of the items on a case-by-case basis. Sometimes, it's fairly easy. For example, I had a fighter once want to obtain Sneak Attack. In another thread, I mentioned the UA variant fighter that gives up bonus feats to get sneak attack. A rogue gets sneak attack at first level, then it improves every odd level from there (so 3rd, 5th, etc). The fighter gets a bonus feat at 1st, then 2nd, then every even level from there (so 6th, 8th, etc).

Now the UA variant fighter gains sneak attack at every odd level, starting at 1st, but it's important to note that to get sneak attack +1d6, the fighter is having to give up both the 1st and 2nd-level bonus feats. That confirmed my feelings that ability just the ability to make sneak attacks is worth one feat, and the first stage of damage (+1d6), is also worth a feat. From there, each higher stage of sneak attack is just worth another feat.

Another example I have from my games is a wizard that wanted to be more melee capable. He wanted to lessen his spellcasting capabilities and increase his BAB progression. Effectively, we cut his spell capacity (i.e. spells per day) by roughly one third, then increased his BAB to that of a fighter. The end result was a wizard that had virtually no trouble at all making touch attacks, and no more trouble than a dexterous fighter making regular attacks (though still admittedly low damage).

Basically, I evaluate the class ability in question, compare it to other class abilities, compare it to published feats, and ballpark it. A great guideline in this is Upper Krusts CR system though.

 

[Dragonblade275]

Er, ~Sean = Not Sean.

My apologies, ~Sean.

Well, thanks, but I don't think it's well deserved.

Probably not well deserved on my part. Hence, I'm honored.

1. This is off-topic, but I saw on the Pathfinder blog that you're doing the detailed write-ups for the deities in the Pathfinder Adventure Paths. Am I correct in assuming that each deity will have a detailed stat-block in the new Pathfinder format?

2. Do you find your players buying many extra feats at the price or 1/5th the XP required for the next level? Or, do they focus on just gaining levels?

 

[kreynolds]

My apologies, ~Sean.
Probably not well deserved on my part. Hence, I'm honored.

1. This is off-topic, but I saw on the Pathfinder blog that you're doing the detailed write-ups for the deities in the Pathfinder Adventure Paths. Am I correct in assuming that each deity will have a detailed stat-block in the new Pathfinder format?

Let me try this another way...I am not Sean K. Reynolds. "k" is the first initial of my first name, and "reynolds" is my last name.

2. Do you find your players buying many extra feats at the price or 1/5th the XP required for the next level? Or, do they focus on just gaining levels?

Actually, no, they don't often buy these feats. Typically only happens if it just makes a lot of sense for the story of the game and immediate evolution of the character. I also support retraining (unlearn a feat, class ability, or class level), so I have seen a purchased feat like this get changed to another feat down the line, or be absorbed into the next class level (for example, a fighter buys a bonus feat one level early, then gets the remainder of the next level, and "catches up", in a sense).

 

[Dragonblade275]

OK. Thanks, ~Sean.

My apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

[kreynolds]

OK. Thanks, ~Sean.

My apologies for the misunderstanding.

No problem at all. I just did not want you to give me more credit than is due.