C&Ds for Online D&D 5E Character Generators

Ed Friedlander reports that WotC has asked him to remove his D&D character generators. Ed ran the generators at his site, Pathguy.com, including a D&D 5E character generator. His Pathfinder RPG character generator is still running. Thanks to Slayyne for the scoop (who also reports that at least one other site has also closed). [Update: while the actual request has not been shared, others have reported that these are very amicable requests].

You can see his closing note here.

"After almost two decades, Wizards of the Coast has asked me to remove my online character generators. I appreciate the many people who have written and thanked me for my work, and I hope you will continue to enjoy the hobby.

As a physician and gamer, I've supported and defended the hobby, and helped concerned families understand its value.

The "Dungeons and Dragons" phenomenon has encouraged young people to study other cultures. It is a game in which people work together to accomplish a meaningful goal. Characters even define themselves in terms of their good morals and their ethics. On one level, it simulates the spiritual warfare described in the Christian scriptures and in the Arthurian legends on which the game is based. I am proud that I was able to make a contribution.

My generator for Pathfinder will of course remain online. Click here for more information about this role-playing game.

May your dice come up 20s.

Ed Friedlander MD"

Back in November, the D&D Tools website suffered a similar fate, as have a couple of spellcard websites. While WotC appears to be largely easygoing as far as fan creations are concerned, they do take action when content from their products is copied or distributed.

Ed's character generator created characters by selecting a number of options, and output a character sheet similar to below. I'm not all that familiar with it, so I don't know what text, if any, it may have borrowed from the official rules.

As yet, there's no license (Open Gaming or otherwise) for D&D 5th Edition (although WotC does intend to do so), although a number of publishers have published books anyway using the older Open Gaming License for D&D 3E and 3.5.

What is interesting to hear is that some people who have received such requests describe them as very amicable. Toxic Rat says "Speaking from personal experience, I received a very nice email asking that I take down particular content owned by WotC. No threats, no warnings of legal action, just a request to honor their copyright." That's great to hear.

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[MoonSong]

Even if you clear the fair use hurdle, you would still run afoul of trademark law. It's hard to imagine a useful character generator that is not properly licensed to use ALL of the IP needed for character creation and advancement, including spell lists, etc.

How much of the spell lists and individual spells are actually trademarked? a lot of character creation and advancement are simple math, and mechanics cannot be trademarked nor copyrighted.

 

[Morrus]

How much of the spell lists and individual spells are actually trademarked? a lot of character creation and advancement are simple math, and mechanics cannot be trademarked nor copyrighted.

Trademarked? None of them, I should think. Trademarks are typically used for company and product names, not the content of the books. The spells can be copyrighted, though; the expression of them. You could theoretically rewrite them all in your own words if you wanted to.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Trademarked? None of them, I should think. Trademarks are typically used for company and product names, not the content of the books. The spells can be copyrighted, though; the expression of them. You could theoretically rewrite them all in your own words if you wanted to.

Some of them would have to be renamed as well as re-writing the description.. Mordenkainen, Bigby, Tenser, Otiluke, Drawmij, etc are all owned by WOTC.

 

[weldon]

How much of the spell lists and individual spells are actually trademarked? a lot of character creation and advancement are simple math, and mechanics cannot be trademarked nor copyrighted.

The point is that a useful character generator needs access to ALL the content. A license is the only safe way to do that. To respond more directly to your question, there's about 20 or so spells that have proper names in them. There's no way to use those in a character tool without a license.

 

[Morrus]

Some of them would have to be renamed as well as re-writing the description.. Mordenkainen, Bigby, Tenser, Otiluke, Drawmij, etc are all owned by WOTC.

That's exactly what the OGL and the SRD did 15 years ago.

 

[MoonSong]

The point is that a useful character generator needs access to ALL the content. A license is the only safe way to do that. To respond more directly to your question, there's about 20 or so spells that have proper names in them. There's no way to use those in a character tool without a license.

I never used the 5e generator. But among the 4e and 3.5 ones, the 3.5 one only referenced spell names, no description of them and just for spontaneous casters. The 4e on referenced power names, but again as far as I can remember no descriptions -but I could be wrong-. Both were fairly useful.

 

[Icon_Charlie]

That's exactly what the OGL and the SRD did 15 years ago.

Correct. In simple terms you can not copyright game mechanics but you can copyright how the game mechanics are expressed. Now even that can be argued. All it costs unfortunately is money.

 

[weldon]

I never used the 5e generator. But among the 4e and 3.5 ones, the 3.5 one only referenced spell names, no description of them and just for spontaneous casters. The 4e on referenced power names, but again as far as I can remember no descriptions -but I could be wrong-. Both were fairly useful.

Those generators had all kinds of references to WotC trademarks. PHB, DMG, book names, monster and character names. They were a mess in terms of compliance. They also had all of the options available from all of the books. Something that you couldn't do just by using the SRD.

I still think it's hard to imagine a character tool that isn't licensed. If you go out on your own without a license, you have a range of choices.

On one extreme, you could make a tool that has the same number of attributes and number ranges but uses different names for everything. That would appear safe from copyright infringement, but would be difficult to use.

On the other extreme, you lift everything straight from the PHB and DMG, including descriptions. You've clearly violated copyright here.

In between (which is what I think MoonSong is trying to explore), you can make a tool that uses all the same mechanics (# of attributes, ranges of values, etc.) but uses all the exact same terms without the descriptions. I think this is going to be murky water in court. You've not lifted passages of text, but you have copied all the same terms and presented them as options in the same order that the PHB presents character options. In my mind, if the tool says that the "rogue class" can take "thief, arcane trickster, or assassin" at "3rd level" you are walking that line pretty close. I realize others may see it differently, but this combination of terms, presentation order, limited choices, etc. all lean towards recognizing that the tool is derivative of the PHB, even if it doesn't copy passages of text directly.

Another approach would be to wait for the OGL/SRD for 5e. The OGL/SRD is helpful, but we'd just end up in the situation we had with 3.5SRD where not all of the player options were made open content.

 

[MoonSong]

Those generators had all kinds of references to WotC trademarks. PHB, DMG, book names, monster and character names. They were a mess in terms of compliance. They also had all of the options available from all of the books. Something that you couldn't do just by using the SRD.

note that you can reference trademarks as part of fair use

 

[Dire Bare]

Its WOTC's game. If they want to mudstomp all creativity & enthusiasm for it then it is their right. Right now they are doing everything they can to ensure the huge burst of popularity 5E enjoyed upon release dies in a fire.

Heh. No.

WotC isn't stomping on anyone's creativity, and they aren't doing their own game a disservice. Outside of some small internet circles, no one even knows who Pathguy is much less that WotC has asked him politely to remove his generators. And many of us who are aware agree with the actions WotC has taken. Pathguy chose not to follow WotC's guidelines on fan content, and was asked to stop. He could have taken the time initially to make sure he was in the clear with WotC, but did not. Not saying he's a bad guy, I'm sure his intent wasn't ill.

You want to play somebody else's game? Play by their rules. Don't like it? Don't play.