C&Ds for Online D&D 5E Character Generators

Ed Friedlander reports that WotC has asked him to remove his D&D character generators. Ed ran the generators at his site, Pathguy.com, including a D&D 5E character generator. His Pathfinder RPG character generator is still running. Thanks to Slayyne for the scoop (who also reports that at least one other site has also closed). [Update: while the actual request has not been shared, others have reported that these are very amicable requests].

You can see his closing note here.

"After almost two decades, Wizards of the Coast has asked me to remove my online character generators. I appreciate the many people who have written and thanked me for my work, and I hope you will continue to enjoy the hobby.

As a physician and gamer, I've supported and defended the hobby, and helped concerned families understand its value.

The "Dungeons and Dragons" phenomenon has encouraged young people to study other cultures. It is a game in which people work together to accomplish a meaningful goal. Characters even define themselves in terms of their good morals and their ethics. On one level, it simulates the spiritual warfare described in the Christian scriptures and in the Arthurian legends on which the game is based. I am proud that I was able to make a contribution.

My generator for Pathfinder will of course remain online. Click here for more information about this role-playing game.

May your dice come up 20s.

Ed Friedlander MD"

Back in November, the D&D Tools website suffered a similar fate, as have a couple of spellcard websites. While WotC appears to be largely easygoing as far as fan creations are concerned, they do take action when content from their products is copied or distributed.

Ed's character generator created characters by selecting a number of options, and output a character sheet similar to below. I'm not all that familiar with it, so I don't know what text, if any, it may have borrowed from the official rules.

As yet, there's no license (Open Gaming or otherwise) for D&D 5th Edition (although WotC does intend to do so), although a number of publishers have published books anyway using the older Open Gaming License for D&D 3E and 3.5.

What is interesting to hear is that some people who have received such requests describe them as very amicable. Toxic Rat says "Speaking from personal experience, I received a very nice email asking that I take down particular content owned by WotC. No threats, no warnings of legal action, just a request to honor their copyright." That's great to hear.

​

 

[Toxic_Rat]

I wish these folks would share the C&Ds so we all didn't have to guess.

It is likely that there was no official C&D, in this particular case at least. Speaking from personal experience, I received a very nice email asking that I take down particular content owned by WotC. No threats, no warnings of legal action, just a request to honor their copyright. It really sucked, and I hope to change it someday, but there it is. There are likely cases where an official letter was issued, but I suspect that is reserved only when they need to start getting serious about legal action, and the offending party is ignoring the initial polite requests.

 

[Evenglare]

Again though, theres the bigger problem of us fans not knowing what and what will not get shut down except through arcane guess work. Wizards has every right of shutting anyone down, it's their IP and they can do with it as they wish. Now clearly a game that ENCOURAGES people to take it and make it their own seems to be a bit... contradictory. From they very first day of the launch of the Starter Set back in the summer they should have had a fan use policy. That's one of the first things any competent company does. Take numenera for example, as soon as the game was released they laid out the rules.

If they keep their IP close to them and no one else then you will eventually start loosing fans. Granted Wizards are not that bad yet, but they are starting on that path to be sure. As much as I love D&D, Wizards have abysmal PR. We rarely get any information about the future and their business plans. Of course this leads into their release schedule nonsense. Anyway, the point is they won't tell us anything until it's too late! God, it's so annoying.

 

[Morrus]

It is likely that there was no official C&D, in this particular case at least. Speaking from personal experience, I received a very nice email asking that I take down particular content owned by WotC. No threats, no warnings of legal action, just a request to honor their copyright. It really sucked, and I hope to change it someday, but there it is. There are likely cases where an official letter was issued, but I suspect that is reserved only when they need to start getting serious about legal action, and the offending party is ignoring the initial polite requests.

That's nice to hear. That's exactly how I would hope they would approach it. Most everything in this world can be resolved amicably.

 

[painted_klown]

I can certainly understand WOTC wanting to protect their IP, and at the very minimun, I can appreciate them being polite and not threatening legal action upon initial requests to take down items they feel violate their copyrights.

I do hope this is a sign that WOTC is currently working on their own character generators, to be released to the masses as an official product.

One thing I find a bit odd is that whille they are freely giving away the game on their website, and encouraging as many people to play as they can get, that they would have an issue with a fan created character generator. I guess my line of thinking is that it gets more people playing, and therefore should lead to more sales of the core books, or at least the PHB at a minimum. Either way, WOTC doesn't veiw it the same, so we must accept that.

Initially (out of ignorance), I was wondering how you could play using only the free PDF files on their website. After I bought the 3 core books, and ran a few sessions (starter set LMoP and homebrew) I realized that they truly did give 5E away for free. As I was explaining this to a couple of new players, it really hit me how generous that move was. Really, you could honestly play D&D 5E for the rest of your life, and never have to spend any money to do so. Of course, you may get bored with the limited number of player options and/or monsters after a while, but still, it can be done at no cost. If/when you do hit a point that you want more options, you can always choose pick up the 3 core books to feed the itch for more content. As far as I am aware, they haven't done that with any edition in the past.

Once I had that "moment of realization" so-to-speak, it actually made me feel good to know that I was supporting a game (financially, and by word of mouth/encouragement) that was not only the most well known RPG, but one that I could show people a couple of links, and introduce them to years and years of RPG fun for free.

While it's easy to come on a message board and point out everything we may find to quibble with, IMO it's hard to argue that WOTC haven't been more than generous to its fans with 5E.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Given the failure of Morningstar, and the total lack of an OGL or any other kind of licensing mechanism for 5E, this bodes pretty ill for the long-term future of 5E, I suspect. This is 2015. People want online tools for character generation and advancement.

By cracking down on stuff like this, they successfully depend their IP, but no matter how politely they do it, they also illustrate their own failings, and tell fans of the game "don't try to create any kind of programs for this, because we may just ask you to take them down" (you can't even stick to the material in the basic stuff and be sure, in the absence of any OGL or legal language stating you can). It's nice that they're not being rude/abusive/legally nasty, but a polite takedown notice is still basically "burn all the work you've done".

There's absolutely no reason to believe that they're developing any digital tools like this themselves. They already contracted it out once and then rapidly called time on it, and historically, WotC has a very poor record of creating tools, and a very good record of announcing anything digital as soon as it's even planned.

Realistically, though, unless WotC does make some sort of official API, or officially licensed offering, we're pretty much not going to get any tools for 5E, and that's just not going to work long-term, not if they want to maintain or grow D&D, rather than to appeal to an ever-shrinking core of traditionalists.

 

[ExploderWizard]

The nerd edition of THE SLAP premieres Friday Feb 6th.


This stupid decision is right up there with pulling the sales of classic D&D pdfs and then complaining about piracy.

WOTC launched a very successful game and now seem content to let enthusiasm for it die. I hope for the sake of the brand, that there is ton of non tabletop stuff coming that will make money because the player base will wander to other games that offer more than slapdowns and silence.

 

[Uder]

This may be a good sign that Wizards may be developing its own generator

Or that, like Games Workshop, they just don't care.

 

[graypariah]

I am very saddened to see this. I did not use the tool myself (nor was I even aware about it) but for me it makes me wonder if they truly intend to release a usable OGL for 5th edition. Even a polite request for someone to take something down that in a few months would have been compliant seems unnecessary unless one of two things is true. A) They don't intend to release an OGL at all or B) they intend to release their own version of the product before the OGL. This isn't a case where in a few years they will release an OGL, we were led to believe that it will be released in the spring or summer.

There is such a thing as looking the other way. A business can prohibit something and at the same time not enforce their prohibition, we do it all the time where I work. WotC should have done just that if they truly intended to provide us with an OGL in a few months time.

 

[talsharien]

I don't think that this situation would be quite as bad if Wizards actually got off their useless backsides and delivered an online tool of their own. The fact that they don't have a clue about such things but insist on blocking every other attempt is just terrible. The fact that people are out there putting generators up and the like and they are very popular would cause most businesses to sit back and think "wow we may be able to make some money here" but Wizards seem oblivious to this need and demand.
As stated in previous posts I think ultimately that people will eventually drift to other games, despite how good this one is.
It is like a little kid having a ball and no friends but not wanting to share his ball.

 

[shadowva]

As far as I know, you can not claim IP on a game's mechanics, so don't know why they could ask to pull this down. I think the rational might be the use of Tieflings and Halflings, those might be copyright material. Ironic that the halfling was created to get around the hobbit IP issue.

 

[JediSoth]

Oh bother. I was using those generators to create NPCs/Hirelings quickly.

 

[Reynard]

If the sample character in the OP is an accurate representation of what the tool provides, then something is amiss - as we know game mechanics can't be protected by copyright (only the specific expression of them), and there's nothing else there. That suggests to me that the tool must have provided more - probably write-ups for the various selected powers/backgrounds/race selections/etc. In which case, WotC are indeed right to take action.

I used the generator for convention pre-gens. The material shown is representative. There are no blocks of copyrighted text. This is WotC pretending it is 1999.

 

[Bugleyman]

As stated in previous posts I think ultimately that people will eventually drift to other games, despite how good this one is.

That is precisely what will happen if they don't change direction right quick. Unfortunately, they seem determined to party like it's 1999.

The fact that 5E is such a good game just makes it that much more painful to watch.

 

[Reynard]

That is precisely what will happen if they don't change direction right quick. Unfortunately, they seem determined to party like it's 1999.

The fact that 5E is such a good game just makes it that much more painful to watch.

Also, it seems incomprehensible that they can look at the success of Pathfinder, which gives away all of its game mechanics almost as quickly as they are published and in an accessible and user friendly format, and somehow think OGLing 5E would have a negative impact on the success of 5E.

 

[Bugleyman]

Also, it seems incomprehensible that they can look at the success of Pathfinder, which gives away all of its game mechanics almost as quickly as they are published and in an accessible and user friendly format, and somehow think OGLing 5E would have a negative impact on the success of 5E.

This is usually the part where someone says "but WotC has more information than some random guy on the Internet. They must know what they're doing!" Yeah, well I watched them "information" 4E into an early grave...an exercise they seem hell-bent on repeating with 5E.

Fixing it would be simple and fast:

1. OGL 5E.
2. License Lone Wolf (with very modest fees) to do an a 5E package for Hero Lab.
3. Release 5E PDFs on D&DClassics.com.

Then just get out of the way. The game would absolutely thrive, because they have a fantastic product and a superior brand.

Like I said, painful to watch.

 

[Pauper]

Guys, it's really not that complex.

Gale Force 9 has a license from WotC to produce spell cards. Someone at GF9 notices a few free online spell-card generators and sends a note to WotC asking why they're paying a license fee when other folks are using the same material for free. WotC sends out friendly, 'please respect our copyright' notices.

Lone Wolf gets into discussions with WotC about licensing the Fifth Edition rules set so that Lone Wolf can produce a module for HeroLab. WotC quotes a license figure, and Lone Wolf responds that the number seems a bit steep when others are producing character generators online without paying a dime. WotC sends out friendly 'please respect our copyright' notices.

Homebrew settings, houserule mechanics, those things are fair game and part of the way in which the fans 'own' D&D. But WotC actually owns D&D, so publishing your 'homebrew' module "The Schmemple of Schmelemental Schmevil" is probably going to draw some attention.

 

[Bugleyman]

Guys, it's really not that complex.

On that, at least, we agree.

Gale Force 9 has a license from WotC to produce spell cards. Someone at GF9 notices a few free online spell-card generators and sends a note to WotC asking why they're paying a license fee when other folks are using the same material for free. WotC sends out friendly, 'please respect our copyright' notices.

Lone Wolf gets into discussions with WotC about licensing the Fifth Edition rules set so that Lone Wolf can produce a module for HeroLab. WotC quotes a license figure, and Lone Wolf responds that the number seems a bit steep when others are producing character generators online without paying a dime. WotC sends out friendly 'please respect our copyright' notices.

Homebrew settings, houserule mechanics, those things are fair game and part of the way in which the fans 'own' D&D. But WotC actually owns D&D, so publishing your 'homebrew' module "The Schmemple of Schmelemental Schmevil" is probably going to draw some attention.

And meanwhile the months roll by with NO tools, NO PDFs, and NO digital options. If they're not careful, they're going to "protect" 5E into an early grave.

 

[rbiddle]

Again though, theres the bigger problem of us fans not knowing what and what will not get shut down except through arcane guess work. Wizards has every right of shutting anyone down, it's their IP and they can do with it as they wish. Now clearly a game that ENCOURAGES people to take it and make it their own seems to be a bit... contradictory. From they very first day of the launch of the Starter Set back in the summer they should have had a fan use policy. That's one of the first things any competent company does. Take numenera for example, as soon as the game was released they laid out the rules.

If they keep their IP close to them and no one else then you will eventually start loosing fans. Granted Wizards are not that bad yet, but they are starting on that path to be sure. As much as I love D&D, Wizards have abysmal PR. We rarely get any information about the future and their business plans. Of course this leads into their release schedule nonsense. Anyway, the point is they won't tell us anything until it's too late! God, it's so annoying.

There's an easy way to know what will or will not get shut down without any magic divination or arcane guessing... The developer can email the company and let them know what they are doing and either get their permission to use their IP or be told up front, that it won't be allowed. I got in a bit of hot water with Chaosium for not asking before I made a Call of Cthulhu item, but we talked since and we're on good grounds (and I officially got permission to use some of their IP). I should have asked first and might have actually gotten better support while I was in development still.

Asking WoTC would just take an email to find out if they would or would not issue a C&D.

 

[Zaran]

When it comes to WotC and stuff to do on the computer, there just is no mixing. They have a clunky website that they barely use. They constantly choose terrible partners for online content. They think internet piracy is why 4e didn't sell. and they think Neverwinter Online is the bee's knees. I really don't think it will get better.

 

[Dausuul]

As far as I know, you can not claim IP on a game's mechanics, so don't know why they could ask to pull this down.

Mechanics are mostly, kinda, non-copyrightable, but you certainly can copyright the presentation of those mechanics. That means you have to rewrite everything in your own words. Given 5E's "natural language" approach, that requires quite a bit of work, and could lead to discrepancies if your interpretation differs from someone else's.

I don't have a problem with WotC enforcing their copyright. I do wish they would hurry up and tell us what they have in mind around licensing. From what I've seen, the sense of the community right now is that at least part of 5E is slated to be OGL-ed, based on comments by (I think) Chris Perkins. Those comments are a few months old now, however, and we've heard nothing more since.