D&D 5E Calibration of single character skill checks

[Shiroiken]

Okay, you are writing a module. Where do you put the DCs?

Or better yet, please read the example and give one fo those recommendations to the DM to calibrate it - do they calibrate that their superstar can often get the DC but still fail regularly, or that someone focusing so much shoudl pass almost all the time?

The problem is the wording. You're looking at it one direction, but your wording makes other look at it from another direction. You're really asking: how difficult of tasks should be used? This is where the DC comes from in 5E, rather than the treadmill often found in other editions and RPGs. The difficulty of any single task is the same, no matter who attempts it, or at what level.

To answer the question you're really looking for, it depends on the purpose of the task. A group task should be really simple, assuming no modifier. A serious consequence for failure should assume no better than a Natural character, a minor consequence no better than Talented, and only a beneficial consequence assuming Focused. I never consider working together, except to determine if/how it can happen.

Take 10 isn’t a thing in 5e.

It is, sort of. Passive checks can be construed as the 5E form of taking the 10. While only Perception and Insight have a spot on the character sheets, and Investigation is only mentioned in a couple of feats, there's nothing that prevents the DM from using Passive checks with any skill or task. I use Passive "knowledge" checks for general information (seeking a specific bit of information requires an active roll).

 

[clearstream]

That’s the automatic success optional rule. That’s very different than take 10.

Look also at multiple ability checks, a few pages earlier, and consider the two together.

[EDIT Wording such as "If a character's proficiency bonus applies to a check, he or she automatically succeeds if the DC is less than or equal to the relevant ability score."]

 

[iserith]

For my part, I don't think about the characters at all (to the extent that is humanly possible) when deciding on a DC, which is always 10, 15, or 20 unless there's a contest. Does the approach to the goal in the context of the challenge make this relatively easy? Then 10. Does it make it hard? Then, 20. Somewhere in between? 15. Is there something about the situation that gives the character an advantage or disadvantage? Then apply that. The character's ability scores and proficiencies will play into their success without any special consideration from me. Which makes sense to me because I don't see why a DM should be expected to know much of anything about the PCs' capabilities. I know I only have a vague idea at best. Part of that is the drink, but the lion's share is that I just don't have to know so I don't bother.

(Notably, advantage specifically applies to things that are not related to the character's inherent capabilities. That suggests to me that DC shouldn't consider the character's inherent capabilities either. Ability scores, proficiencies, and whatnot will account for it.)

 

[clearstream]

For my part, I don't think about the characters at all (to the extent that is humanly possible) when deciding on a DC, which is always 10, 15, or 20 unless there's a contest. Does the approach to the goal in the context of the challenge make this relatively easy? Then 10. Does it make it hard? Then, 20. Somewhere in between? 15. Is there something about the situation that gives the character an advantage or disadvantage? Then apply that. The character's ability scores and proficiencies will play into their success without any special consideration from me. Which makes sense to me because I don't see why a DM should be expected to know much of anything about the PCs' capabilities. I know I only have a vague idea at best. Part of that is the drink, but the lion's share is that I just don't have to know so I don't bother.

(Notably, advantage specifically applies to things that are not related to the character's inherent capabilities. That suggests to me that DC shouldn't consider the character's inherent capabilities either. Ability scores, proficiencies, and whatnot will account for it.)

I often find myself thinking about who created the difficulty? Say the sheerness of a castle wall, the resistance of a lock, the cunning concealment of a secret door. That can guide as to a DC that makes good sense in-world.

 

[iserith]

I often find myself thinking about who created the difficulty? Say the sheerness of a castle wall, the resistance of a lock, the cunning concealment of a secret door. That can guide as to a DC that makes good sense in-world.

Yes, that plus the approach the player states is what I use to determine the DC. Often that approach will be pretty standard (e.g. "use my thieves' tools to pick the lock") and so really what matters at that point is the complexity of the mechanism. This lock is simple or this one is made by a master of their craft, that sort of thing.

 

[Charlaquin]

It is, sort of. Passive checks can be construed as the 5E form of taking the 10. While only Perception and Insight have a spot on the character sheets, and Investigation is only mentioned in a couple of feats, there's nothing that prevents the DM from using Passive checks with any skill or task. I use Passive "knowledge" checks for general information (seeking a specific bit of information requires an active roll).

While passive checks are procedurally similar to taking 10, they are used to resolve different things. Taking 10 is used to resolve a task a PC takes significantly more time to complete than usual (I forget exactly how long), whereas passive checks are used to resolve a task performed repeatedly over time, or when the DM wants to resolve a check secretly.

 

[Charlaquin]

Look also at multiple ability checks, a few pages earlier, and consider the two together.

[EDIT Wording such as "If a character's proficiency bonus applies to a check, he or she automatically succeeds if the DC is less than or equal to the relevant ability score."]

This is different from taking 10 in the opposite way from how passive checks are different; it’s used to resolve similar tasks that you would use taking 10 for, but it is a different procedure for resolving them.

 

[clearstream]

This is different from taking 10 in the opposite way from how passive checks are different; it’s used to resolve similar tasks that you would use taking 10 for, but it is a different procedure for resolving them.

It can produce a slightly different result, too. I don't believe this quibble materially impacts my central point, which is that a sailor can't really fail to dock their boat. The check is easy (DC 10, barring unusual factors like a raging storm) and they pass it without rolling.

I find it helpful to think about the DCs from the perspective of low-level characters (including in my view, 0th level or "skilled" people). On that same page in the DMG it describes that "a DC 30 check is nearly impossible for most low-level characters" and the perspective "low-level characters" is repeated in several places. So I believe that's what the designers were going for. @Swarmkeeper take a look at DMG239 - the section on Difficulty Class. Rather than "most likely" I believe it almost certain that the designers wrote the DCs from the perspective of low-level characters... because they say they did on that page.

While that helpfully anchors the day-to-day world, it is not quite so useful for DMs. I believe DMs need to have in mind characters who can achieve what would be nearly impossible for a low-level character. Say at second tier - +4 mod, +3 prof, +3 exp, +d4 guidance, +d8 inspiration - 13-42 with an average roll of 27. For me that can lead to an interesting investigation of ones assumptions about the game-world.

 

[Minigiant]

This is different from taking 10 in the opposite way from how passive checks are different; it’s used to resolve similar tasks that you would use taking 10 for, but it is a different procedure for resolving them.

Personally I think 5e made an error in not handing out Expertise and Reliable Talent to all the skill classes and skilled NPCs.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Personally I think 5e made an error in not handing out Expertise and Reliable Talent to all the skill classes and skilled NPCs.

What do you mean by “skill classes”? That term doesn’t sound like a thing in 5e.