Call of Cthulhu d20 rules for D&D game?

[Iron_Chef]

I'm looking to do a dark, gritty fantasy game without switching rules sets if possible. I have Call of Cthulhu d20 and aside from the removal of classes and addition of sanity rules and that anyone can learn/cast spells (at a cost), it seems very compatible with D&D; meaning everyone in my group should be able to switch over without much fuss, or bogging down combat with questions. I'm just wondering what kinds of advice/experiences anyone might have using this? It seems particularly appropriate for Lankhmar, Thieves' World, Conan, Harn, or other gritty settings. Are there any websites that might help? I've seen the Conan d20 site and it was cool, but seemed like too much work to implement its house rules.

I'm wondering if allowing some D&D class features as feats would be okay, or if allowing some non-magic using classes would be okay vs. CofC's classless level system.

I'm also curious as to what would be the advantages of using d20 Modern rules instead of CoC d20? I'm not sure learning the extra rules and using VP/WP is worth the switch.

 

[Krieg]

I'm looking to do a dark, gritty fantasy game without switching rules sets if possible. I have Call of Cthulhu d20 and aside from the removal of classes and addition of sanity rules and that anyone can learn/cast spells (at a cost), it seems very compatible with D&D; meaning everyone in my group should be able to switch over without much fuss, or bogging down combat with questions. I'm just wondering what kinds of advice/experiences anyone might have using this? It seems particularly appropriate for Lankhmar, Thieves' World, Conan, Harn, or other gritty settings. Are there any websites that might help? I've seen the Conan d20 site and it was cool, but seemed like too much work to implement its house rules.

I've run Harn using CoCD20 off and on over the past couple of years & it has worked remarkably well. The thing to remember with running a fantasy CoC campaign vs standard D&D is that the characters will be defined by their skills rather than their class.

CoC is VERY skill driven compared to D&D.

(FYI It's not a bad idea to use the optional Defense Bonus rules as the player's will probably see far more combat than the average CoC Investigator.)

I'm wondering if allowing some D&D class features as feats would be okay, or if allowing some non-magic using classes would be okay vs. CofC's classless level system.

Class features as feats is fine, just make sure that you apply apropriate pre-reqs to keep them in check.

I would recomend against using standard core classes, as they tend to be more more powerful than the base CoC class.

Instead, an option that you could look into is using advanced/prestige classes that would allow players to further specialize their characters if they so wish.

I've also found that the magic system from Fantasy Flight Games Midnight setting works perfectly with a CoC based fantasy game.

It uses the PHB spells but still manages to be low powered & gritty. I can't recomend it highly enough.

I'm also curious as to what would be the advantages of using d20 Modern rules instead of CoC d20? I'm not sure learning the extra rules and using VP/WP is worth the switch.

D20 Modern characters are slightly more powerful, but are also more flexible. The various talent treees give them far greater customizability than CoC.

FWIW the D20 Modern rules will be just about as transparent to a D&D player as the CoC ones are. The learning curve is minor.

D20 Modern uses HP with a massive damage threshold that is similar to CoCs. D20M does NOT use VP/WP.



You might also want to take a look at the DarkLore World: DarkLore Campaign Primer from Malladin's Gate Press &/or Classically Modern by Merlin's Workshop.

Both of these products integrate D20 Modern with a more "medieval fantasy" feel. DarkLore World in particular has the dark/gritty feel that you are looking for.

Oh did I mention that both are available as free .pdf downloads?

(Also take the time to check out the other offerings at Malladins Gate & Merlin's Workshop, both have additional products that may be of use to you.)

 

[Iron_Chef]

Thanks for the advice and links! I also looked at the d20 Babylon 5 RPG's character creation system, which seems to me to be a cross between allowing classes while limiting hit points (starting HP: 6 + 1-3 HP/level based on class, CON doesn't provide bonus HP). I'm also looking forward to the Conan d20 rpg next year, but the $50 price tag and previews released so far aren't exactly making me foam at the mouth in anticipation. The magic system looks like it might be clunky from the latest preview of the Scholar class on their officiual Conan d20 site. The unofficial Conan d20 site has some good stuff on it, but also appears a bit clunky to implement... http://hyboria.xoth.net/index.htm

Krieg, what kind of changes have you had to make to use Cthulhu d20 with the Harn setting? I first got interested in Harn when I saw Shane Morales's d20Harn Guide pdf a few years ago, but it's so expensive to buy into that (rules generic) setting, not to mention the $40 HarnMaster RPG rulebook (supposedly even deadlier than Rolemaster's combat resolution/critical system!).

 

[Varianor Abroad]

There is COC d20 forum at Monte Cook's boards. Several people have posted ideas similar to yours, although I don't recall anything specifically on point to what you're asking. I would consider what Massive Damage threshold is appropriate since COC's is 10 IIRC. Good luck with the game.

 

[Krieg]

Thanks for the advice and links! I also looked at the d20 Babylon 5 RPG's character creation system, which seems to me to be a cross between allowing classes while limiting hit points (starting HP: 6 + 1-3 HP/level based on class, CON doesn't provide bonus HP).

Hmm, that is definitely an interesting idea. It will certainly keep your players away from ever wanting to get into combat!

I'm also looking forward to the Conan d20 rpg next year, but the $50 price tag and previews released so far aren't exactly making me foam at the mouth in anticipation. The magic system looks like it might be clunky from the latest preview of the Scholar class on their officiual Conan d20 site. The unofficial Conan d20 site has some good stuff on it, but also appears a bit clunky to implement... http://hyboria.xoth.net/index.htm

My fingers have been crossed for quite some time regarding Conan D20. I'm not a big fan of Mongoose, but Slaine & Judge Dredd both turned out pretty decent, so there is hope.

Also on the horizon Guardians of Order is doing a D20 adaptation of George R.R. Martin's A Game of Thrones fantasy series.
If you are not familiar with the books, they are low fantasy very much in keeping with the atmosphere of Harn.

Krieg, what kind of changes have you had to make to use Cthulhu d20 with the Harn setting?

The main issue was changing the focus from a contemporary setting to a more "medieval" one. You're going to have to go over the professional templates & modify them to fit the setting, but that is relatively easy.

I added an aditional layer of granularity for weapon feats. Basically everyone starts out with the Simple Weapons Proficiency feat. I then broke the martial weapons into related groups. Various templates get one or more of the "martial groups" as part of their starting packages. Exotic Weapons are per D&D (ie one per Feat).

For magic I'm using the system from Midnight which allows anyone to learn some magic at the cost of a feat. The Channeler class is for "dedicated" magic users (I'm using the spells & templates for AU instead of the PHB).

Each Shek-Pvar convocation has individualized spell lists & a "buy in" feat. Grey mages are a prestige class with all of the convocations as a pre-req.

Divine spell-casters are similar...restricted spell lists per god & prestige classes for priests.

I first got interested in Harn when I saw Shane Morales's d20Harn Guide pdf a few years ago, but it's so expensive to buy into that (rules generic) setting, not to mention the $40 HarnMaster RPG rulebook (supposedly even deadlier than Rolemaster's combat resolution/critical system!).

Your best bet is to continously scan e-bay for good deals. Do some research on which books you really want, be patient & wait until they pop up in your price range. Be careful not to get caught up in bidding wars (of course that is always something to keep in mind with e-bay! lol).

FWIW I do have some duplicate copies of various Harn products. If you are looking for specific items, just let me know as I may have a copy.

Good places to start for Harn related info:
Harn List
Harn Forum
Lythia.com
Harn articles

For general source material you might also want to look into A Magical Medieval Society: Wester Europe as it is very "Harnic" in feel (although with a slightly "higher" magic level). The adventure Black Monks of Glastonbury can easily be adapted to Harn...And finally, Chaosium will be releasing Cthulhu Dark Ages sometime in the next month or so. While it will be a BRP rather than D20 product, it should be a great source of ideas.