Critical Role Call of the Netherdeep playthrough commentary [spoilers]

[Paul Farquhar]

When I read Call of the Netherdeep I couldn't decide if I thought it was a good, bad or in between, largely because I was uncertain how some of its moving parts would function in actual play. But my players are Critical Role fans, so I am going to try running it, starting tonight. So I thought I would report back on how it goes. This is aimed at using my experiences to help fellow DMs with the adventure, it's not a narrative.

There are six players, and we are running the game on Roll20. I am using milestone levelling, but because of the large number of players they will be a level behind in certain parts of the adventure for balance reasons, and to help me fit in extra content.

1. Preparation for chapters One and Two

Minor niggle: the person who drew the Jigow map doesn't know what a dodecahedron looks like from the top!
Larger niggle: The Emerald Grotto map expects the rival party to swim through a tunnel that is 3 feet wide and 5 feet high. Since one of them is a 12 foot tall ogre this could be difficult! I have decided that the elders will provide that character with a potion of diminution as well as a potion of water breathing. I would do the same for the PCs if one of them wouldn't be able to fit through that space (e.g. a centaur).

The unmarked player map for chapter two seems a bit pointless. there is no information on the marked map that they wouldn't know from consulting in game maps. There is no included battlemap for chapter two random encounters, and I couldn't find a generic badlands map that I liked. They all were either too green or too sandy. There was a map for the caravan stop, which seems redundant, since the is no fight likely to occur there, unless the PCs start one.

 

[Burnside]

One moment that jumped out at me early on is that the writers assume the adventurers will kill the shark at the bottom of the first dungeon, and that it will break through the wall into the (plot-vital) secret chamber in its death throes. However, the goal of the mission is to get the thing the shark is carrying, and I can see many groups doing that without actually killing that shark. Curious to hear how that plays out in your game.

The other thing I'm very curious about is the rivals, because the writers devote a LOT of ink to them, but my conclusion after reading about half the book was that the whole thing would play much smoother without them - especially if they end up as allies of the party (which seems likely). Seems like there would be a recurring extra job for the DM in figuring out why 5 NPCs aren't helping the party in a bunch of encounters.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The party includes a druid - I suspect they will befriend the shark and pull out the spear, in which case I will have it smash the wall in gratitude. But we will see. What could happen is the rivals get there first, kill the shark and take the McGuffin. Which might make things more interesting.

 

[jgsugden]

I'd have the PCs roll a perception role when they enter the chamber. Who gets the highest roll would be told there is a crack in the back of the chamber (with more detail for a higher roll) through which a little light can be seen. I might even have the McGuffin call to them somehow. Then, if the shark is evaded without combat, and there is no reason for the pillar to break, you can remind them of the crack and let them figure out they can knock the pillar into the wall to open it up.

This is not the approach I'd normally used in a dungeon design, but when you run someone else's dungeon you have to adapt. I would not put something in a dungeon that has to be found for the story to continue.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I would not put something in a dungeon that has to be found for the story to continue.

That one is covered: there are two parties in the dungeon, so if the PCs don't find it the NPCs will.

But "destiny" is explicitly a thing in this adventure. "People do not stumble upon Vestiges without a reason." - Elder Ushru.

 

[Burnside]

I'd have the PCs roll a perception role when they enter the chamber. Who gets the highest roll would be told there is a crack in the back of the chamber (with more detail for a higher roll) through which a little light can be seen. I might even have the McGuffin call to them somehow. Then, if the shark is evaded without combat, and there is no reason for the pillar to break, you can remind them of the crack and let them figure out they can knock the pillar into the wall to open it up.

This is not the approach I'd normally used in a dungeon design, but when you run someone else's dungeon you have to adapt. I would not put something in a dungeon that has to be found for the story to continue.

Totally - there are lots of ways for the DM to solve it, but it's a pretty glaring design flaw and I'm surprised it survived playtesting.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Larger niggle: The Emerald Grotto map expects the rival party to swim through a tunnel that is 3 feet wide and 5 feet high. Since one of them is a 12 foot tall ogre this could be difficult

Ogre's are around 9 to 10 feet.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Totally - there are lots of ways for the DM to solve it, but it's a pretty glaring design flaw and I'm surprised it survived playtesting.

As mentioned if the party does not find it the Rival Party finds it instead.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Larger niggle: The Emerald Grotto map expects the rival party to swim through a tunnel that is 3 feet wide and 5 feet high. Since one of them is a 12 foot tall ogre this could be difficult!

I would imagine that because the ogre would be horizontal while swimming... it's the ogre's width rather than height that would be the potential issue in a tunnel 3' x 5'. And I would have to think that even at 12' tall... an ogre's width (say at that their shoulders, probably their widest part) would certainly fall within the 3 to 5 foot range (and in actuality even gets a bit more room if it can rotate slightly and swim on the diagonal.) I'm 6' tall and my shoulder blades are about 18" across... so you double me up and the ogre would just make it in without even needing to swim on its side.

So a potion of diminution would certainly be helpful to the ogre overall, but I don't know if it'd be completely necessary.

 

[Burnside]

As mentioned if the party does not find it the Rival Party finds it instead.

The book describes the passage being opened by the death of the shark. There are many ways the encounter could reasonably end without the shark dying. It's a flaw. The shark could be taken out with a sleep spell, or pacified by magic, etc.

The writers describe the rivals claiming the jewel if the players refuse to touch it or if the rivals kill the shark and get in there first, but as written the story would dead-end if the adventurers, say, charm the shark or just take the prize off it and leave - or even if they lure it into another area and kill it there, which they can potentially do even before the rivals reach the final area.

The DM can fix it, but even a casual read will spot the problem.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

The book describes the passage being opened by the death of the shark. There are many ways the encounter could reasonably end without the shark dying. It's a flaw. The shark could be taken out with a sleep spell, or pacified by magic, etc.

The writers describe the rivals claiming the jewel if the players refuse to touch it or if the rivals kill the shark and get in there first, but as written the story would dead-end if the adventurers, say, charm the shark or just take the prize off it and leave - or even if they lure it into another area and kill it there, which they can potentially do even before the rivals reach the final area.

The DM can fix it, but even a casual read will spot the problem.

It's not really a problem. If the Party leaves without it, you just say the rivals find it.

 

[Burnside]

It's not really a problem. If the Party leaves without it, you just say the rivals find it.

Yes - you fix the design flaw the writers left you.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Yes - you fix the design flaw the writers left you.

No cause it already says that happens.

 

[Burnside]

No cause it already says that happens.

If the shark is not killed in area E10, does the adventure, as written, provide any way for any character, player or NPC, to access E11 or E12 and therefore the entire rest of the adventure?

The answer to this question is “no.” That is a design flaw.

Yes, there are a hundred ways to solve it, all beginning with “The DM changes it so that…”

And yes, the DM always should and must modify and add and adapt an adventure for their table. But there is a difference between that and writing a fairly basic and simple and avoidable plot-stopper like this into the first dungeon of the campaign.

 

[DEFCON 1]

For my money... if there are a hundred ways to solve it by having "the DM changes it so that"... then that is a net positive. Because you are teaching DMs to actually solve issues (with apparently very easy solutions if there are hundreds of them) for when the stuff they have written down in front of them are not able to cover the problems that arise by the players doing something unexpected.

If the DM can just run a module with no thought whatsoever, then they might as well not even be there. A computer can run the adventure. Forcing DMs to actually consider issues that crop up and solve them is what teaches them to become better DMs.

 

[Burnside]

For my money... if there are a hundred ways to solve it by having "the DM changes it so that"... then that is a net positive. Because you are teaching DMs to actually solve issues (with apparently very easy solutions if there are hundreds of them) for when the stuff they have written down in front of them are not able to cover the problems that arise by the players doing something unexpected.

If the DM can just run a module with no thought whatsoever, then they might as well not even be there. A computer can run the adventure. Forcing DMs to actually consider issues that crop up and solve them is what teaches them to become better DMs.

There’s plenty of moments like that in this adventure, as there are in all adventures. This isn’t one of those. It’s a simple design screw up, not some condescending attempt to teach DMs some sort of lesson by writing an unnecessary dead end into the starter dungeon.

The book is good, by the way. Betrayer’s Rise is among the best mid-size dungeons I’ve seen for 5E. But man, the lengths people will always go to claim incidents of bad design are something other than bad design.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Ogre's are around 9 to 10 feet.

She is described as 12 feet in the book. She is a particularly big ogre.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

If the shark is not killed in area E10, does the adventure, as written, provide any way for any character, player or NPC, to access E11 or E12 and therefore the entire rest of the adventure?

Yes. There crack is already visible and mentioned in the description text: "The water here is a little warmer, and a gentle current pulls you toward a crevice in the south wall that emits shimmering golden light." The adventurers (PC or NPC) will just need to find another way to widen the crack without the shark's help. For example, there is a (soggy) scroll of Thunderwave in the dungeon.

NB, the shark is far too big to leave the chamber (huge creature). I don't know how it got in there in the first place! Maybe the elders used another potion of diminution, or magically enlarged it?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Anyway, a report on the game.

Chapter One
The players had a whole lot of fun with this! The bought into the critical role playstyle and created eccentric characters who spent most of the time bantering amongst themselves whilst playing silly games. The tortoise wrangling was probably the unexpected highlight! As expected, the druid attempted to establish communication with the shark, but this was spoiled by the murderhoboing orc fighter and a deadly fight ensued. We ran out of time mid-battle, so we haven't reached any of the potentially troublesome decision points yet.

They established a positive relationship with the rivals (currently unimaginatively known as Ayo's Team) and just beat them to the shark cave.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Session Two.

Chapter One conclusion
Ayo's team arrived and killed the shark, thus earning themselves the moniker "The Kill Stealers". The party won the competition and found the McGuffin. I'm not exactly sure what the deal with the glowing spear was meant to be - something that got cut?

Chapter Two start
Big lore dump and a cross county hike. The only point of potential rail-jumping was when the party contemplated traveling by ship. The players found this less interesting than the fun and games of chapter one. But then none of us are keen on hex crawls. The two parties set out together, which turned out to be a good thing, when the party attempted to save a heard of mammoth from a marauding beast, which KOed and flew off with the bard. Ayo managed to shoot it down (again) and Maggie the ogre caught the falling bard. Did you see the movie The Other Guys? I think the PCs are starting to feel like them. But the party has expanded to 14, including the mammoths.