Calling all Teachers: A question about my education

[The_Universe]

The issue in getting the job isn't whether you are willing to accept the salary schedule. The question is whether the district is willing to pay the upper end of that schedule.

As I understand it, for those places with a schedule, there's usually little or no discretionary power. If you meet the schedule requirements, if they hire you, they must pay you what the schedule says. They cannot pay you less. So it they aren't willing to pay you that much, you cannot willingly take a pay cut to get the job. You simply don't get hired.

That's the way I understand it works, as well - but I'm not a teacher. I just know several.

 

[Impeesa]

I went to a fairly generic middle-class high school, and we had an English teacher with a PhD. Aside from the budgetary issues already discussed, I can't see any school complaining about overqualification - they should recognize that the extra depth of knowledge can greatly enhance the learning experience.

--Impeesa--

 

[Bloodstone Press]

I went to a metro public school in Nashville (fairly low funding) and I had a math teacher who had a PhD. I don't know how much she made or anything, of course.

 

[nikolai]

So, I'm studying history-- currently working on my BA (with a minor in Literature)... I really want to be a high school teacher [...] However, I also want to have the freedom to do research and write scholarly historical articles and books.

I've been told by many people that these two goals clash because the education I need to write on that level (at least my MA, probably PhD) will leave me over-qualified to teach history on the high school level (because of salary requirements and the issues with under-funded schools here in the US).

I'm speaking from a UK perspective (so apply your judgement as to how applicable what I say will be to you). But I've had teachers with PhDs, and had friends with PhDs who've gone on to become teachers. I don't think overqualification was ever a problem - and one of my friends decided he wanted to teach infants. The PhDs started at the same salary rate as non-PhDs, and I know the degree can give you an edge with regard to promotion (headteacher, head of department) later in your career.

Also, from the perspective of doing research and writing scholarly historical articles, you don't need a higher degree to do this. It obviously helps enormously to spend time on research while doing the degree and to have the further training, and it is an awful lot of fun. But it's not neccessary. The quality of the work is what counts. Journals anonymously review manuscripts, no-one's going to be asking for any certificates. You'll know the history journals better than me, but from what I've seen of them only a minority of them even print letters after (or before) the authors name.

 

[FungiMuncher]

As a general rule in South Dakota, each town of decent size will have one private school: The local Catholic School... which makes getting a job there slightly more difficult for me, the protestant.

At least here in Ohio, being protestant isn't a problem. I've subbed at one Catholic school and had interviews at a couple others. Even had one job offer (but ultimately turned it down). The question of my religious background never came up.

I have an MA in education, and got that before any teaching job. I took me five years after graduating before I got my teaching job. Some folks suggested it was due to my high education/low experience. Personally, I think it was simply due to my low experience, and the abundance of teachers in the area at the time.

Where I currently teach, there is one teacher with a PhD. We teach in a middle school. There are quite a few teachers with PhDs in the disctrict. My impression is that for some districts, having to pay the higher salary for a teacher's PhD might be an issue. However, for most, the added prestige of claiming a higher degreed person on staff more than makes up for it.

If you think getting hired with an advanced degree and no experience might be a problem with where you want to settle, then delaying the advanced degree could be a strategy you use. If you know were you're going to be in the next year or two, doing some research on this might be good.

However, if such things are less well defined, and you really want that advanced degree, I'd say go for it! No sense in delaying your goals when opportunity comes knocking.

 

[Gilladian]

My mother has a phd in education, and a specialty in reading disability education (I don't remember the exact title of her degrees).

When she wanted to get a (special ed teacher's) job at a local Vermont elementary school, she was forced to "hide" her phd to get hired. They were simply and absolutely unable to afford to meet the pay of a phd on their schedule (this experience was back in the mid-late '80's and 90's).

I'm a librarian with a Master's degree. It's an excellent compromise. I don't have to do the classroom thing (which I hate) but I work every day with the kids the teachers send out with assignments. The kids come to the public library bewhildered and we get to do lots of hands-on teaching on a one-to-one basis.

I could go on to get a 2nd masters or a phd, but it would be window-dressing in the sense that it would make no effect on my career path unless I decided to go into an academic library. Still, I consider pursuing that history degree every now and then (and then change my mind because the only University in my town is dyed in the wool Baptist and quite expensive).

Gilladian

 

[Mercule]

High schools grant tenure? I thought that was a university-only thing. Hmm. Learn something everyday.

I agree that continuing History education in South Dakota might be a bit of a stretch, especially if you're talking the western side -- USD might have a program, but I doubt it's at the top. Are you committed to SD? U of Iowa has a decent History program, IIRC. I studied undergrad history at Iowa State and know there is a grad program there. U of Minnesota is an all-around great school, by my understanding, even if it is heavily slanted toward the sciences -- and with 3M right there, they are very into grad/continuing education of even the most unusual sorts. A college friend went on to Kallamazoo, MI (don't remember the school) for History and/or Library Science, so I'd expect a decent program there.

 

[pogre]

As a high school teacher with a doctorate I can tell you it will take the right school district to hire you. Many, many places will avoid hiring a person with an advanced degree because of the extra money involved. On the other hand, my advanced degrees were the reason why I landed my current job at an awesome public high school here in IL. A place that will not hire you because of your stellar education may not be a great place to work at either...

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

High schools grant tenure? I thought that was a university-only thing. Hmm. Learn something everyday.

I agree that continuing History education in South Dakota might be a bit of a stretch, especially if you're talking the western side -- USD might have a program, but I doubt it's at the top. Are you committed to SD? U of Iowa has a decent History program, IIRC. I studied undergrad history at Iowa State and know there is a grad program there. U of Minnesota is an all-around great school, by my understanding, even if it is heavily slanted toward the sciences -- and with 3M right there, they are very into grad/continuing education of even the most unusual sorts. A college friend went on to Kallamazoo, MI (don't remember the school) for History and/or Library Science, so I'd expect a decent program there.

This is my problem: I am currently in an EXCELLENT place to continue my education (Washington, DC... I have American University, U of Maryland, William and Mary, and U of Penn all located very near by--all with very good history programs).

I do not necessarily *want* to get my MA or PhD at the University of South Dakota (It is a great school-- I went there for a year-- they do really have a great history faculty that I miss dearly... though, if it wasn't an option for my to continue my education out here in DC, I could at least get my MA there)...

And so, the problem rests on whether or not to go ahead and get my advanced degree now at the risk of making myself a little less hire-able in the mid-wester/central United States.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

You will have to do a little research into the areas you are looking at teaching in. The No Child Left Behind act has a requirement that all schools be fully staffed with "highly qualified" teachers by a certain timepoint (I don't recall what that is exactly). Many states are interpreting that to mean having a Master's degree or better.

Since most public school teachers are unionized, the pay scales are set based upon degree and years of teaching - they are not indivdiually negotiable so it is possible to price yourself out of a job in a district with very little money.

Get testing data from states that you are looking at and look at the high performing districts. It is sad but true that the better performing districts are usually the ones that pay better - the pay the best therefore they can choose from the best teacher candidates. Flip side is that sometimes in struggling districts there is a strong push to get better candidates with advanced degrees - again, only research into the areas you are looking will tell you this.

Public vs. Private: my wife has done both, she will choose public from now on. Better pay (she has managed to get into one of the top paying districts in the state), better benefits, and in the end, she thinks, better students. The private school she taught at was a very expensive, upper class school. What she found were a disporportionally high number of spoiled brats and annoying parents who felt that becasu they were paying so much to send their kids to the school, they school should bend over backwards for them. She does admit that in the public school, she has more work to do as she is expected to do more with less support than she had in the private school.