"Campaign..meh, but I like my character"

[Kestrel]

"Campaign..meh, but I like my character"

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I've noticed when folks are talking about a game they are not that invested in, they will inevitably say, but I like my character.

The purpose of this thread is to try to figure out why we (the players) don't put the same effort into buying into the campaign as we do into the character. IMO, one without the other is sorta pointless.

Have you noticed this in your own groups?

 

[Black_Swan]

Gamers in general don't like confrontation. So they'll sit in a game they don't like because they don't want to leave and or hurt someones feelings by saying anything.

I've been there...but after a while even a cool character can't save a boring game.

Although, I've also been on the other end. Where I've got a great adventure to run or box set and the characters are completely uninspired or insane.

"I'm ready to play...I've got my iron fisted fanatical cleric of [insert god] ready to go! If he can't convert someone he kills them"...yay

Most problems like this can be solved through communication. But it's hard to communicate with someone if you fear hurting their feelings.

 

[Stormborn]

Not really in my group, although I do think characters often trump camapigns. In general though I can see that lots of campaigns, while not BAD, are just generic and (to borrow a term from one of my players) 'same-y'. Thus, the interesting part is their PC, not yet another goblin/undead/drow horde and their dungeon/cave/crypt/underdark lair. PCs are often far mroe diverse, or feel that way to their creators, than campaigns, especially ones that rely on pregenerated settings and adventures. (Not that their is anything wrong with them, just that for the sake of markatablity they have to be universally applicable and thus less diverse.) The problem is neither poor investment in the campaign from players or inherently bad campaigns from GMs, its simple lack of variety in experiances with campaigns that causes players to focus on their character more than the campaign itself.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

The purpose of this thread is to try to figure out why we (the players) don't put the same effort into buying into the campaign as we do into the character. IMO, one without the other is sorta pointless.

How can you buy into a campaign that hasn't much to buy into? If it's something with an uninspired plot (with lots of holes in it), railroading, no surprises, and so on, how do you force yourself to like it?

You don't.

The only thing that might work is telling the DM that you don't like his campaign. Beyond that, a player's control over the campaign is quite limited.
But his control over his own PC is not.

 

[Henry]

The purpose of this thread is to try to figure out why we (the players) don't put the same effort into buying into the campaign as we do into the character. IMO, one without the other is sorta pointless.

It depends on two things: What kind of gamer the person is, and how much the DM lets them buy into it.

I'm a full-on Robin Laws Disciple (the guy who wrote Feng Shui, the first chapter to the DMG2, and Robin's Laws to Good Gamemastering) and if the player doesn't have a single ounce of the method actor or storyteller in him or her, then they probably aren't going to "buy" into the setting as much. If they are a "power gamer" in the Laws sense, they are going to buy in to the campaign so much as that action will net them more "stuff" -- items, resources, connections, prestige. If they're a butt-kicker type, they will take a cool and interesting combat over a plot point or revelation, etc. The Story teller types, the Actors who get into exploring character, they'll buy in as much as the DM lets them.

Second point: The DM's gotta let 'em. Players have tons of input into their characters - class, race, feats, skills, personality -- they're vested there. But the DM who presents a static world to them, a moving tableau which they observe but can't change except in the most minor of ways, they won't be as vested in it.

Look at it another way: Are you as vested into the success of the Auto Mechanic who changes your oil as much as you are in your personal finances or your daughter's dance recital? You'd be more interested in Joe's Body shop if you owned a piece of the business, however.

 

[Dragon Snack]

If the game sucks, there's no reason to stick around...

I've quit 2 games. One game ended right there (apparently nobody else was having fun either) and in the other the DM talked me into coming back only to end the game a couple weeks later. In both cases I talked to the DM at length, but neither of them seemed to care much past lip service ("I've got a plan").

I loved my character in both (even if one of them was totally ineffective), but eventually tired of the games. The player just doesn't have as much control over the game as does the DM. If the DM isn't good (or won't change), it hurts the game.

I would have taken a generic game for at least one of those games. It was a "special" campaign where we CONSTANTLY faced ELs of 2-3+ over our level, which was just draining (that's the one I came back to, with a wacked out min/maxed character).

The other was semi-generic, but with the DM coddling one player and outright shafting others. Oddly enough, the coddled player was just as upset with the way things were playing out. There wasn't much we could do to save that game.

Both of those DMs play in my game now...

I think my campaign is pretty generic, but I guess it works for the players because I give them options to follow if they want to. Apparently that lets them 'buy into' the game enough to continue playing. I even offered to step down after a TPK (honestly, I want to play), but I was the only DM that the group could come to a consensus on.

 

[Kestrel]

Good points.

So how does a GM get the players invested into the campaign, so they see beyond thier character and become a part of the world?

(I'm asking these questions just for discussion's sake, not as a question for my own campaign)

 

[Sound of Azure]

How can you buy into a campaign that hasn't much to buy into? If it's something with an uninspired plot (with lots of holes in it), railroading, no surprises, and so on, how do you force yourself to like it?

You don't.

For me, that's pretty much it right there.

I can get a great character idea in my head, stat the character up, and develop an interesting role for me to play.... only to find the campaign has no scope to expand such a character, or that the rest of the party goes gallivanting off doing things that don't interest you. Some games just fall flat, even when everyone is trying hard to like it.

 

[Black_Swan]

Good points.

So how does a GM get the players invested into the campaign, so they see beyond thier character and become a part of the world?

Give them options. Let them explore the world and make their own way in it.

I'm a big fan of having several different plot options available. Some that the pc's can act upon and some that will act upon the pc's.

If things start to get boring or they seem uninterested in what's going on, then I spring another plot point. I keep spinning until they find one they like and then I run with it.

Use their backgrounds and throw their past at them. If they're only interested in their characters then respond to that.

 

[Henry]

Another way we used to do it with other groups I gamed with was that the DM would ask the players to 'develop' their home towns for them. You came from a city by the sea in the campaign world? Fine, draw me a city, give me important places, and the I as DM will use that info if and when your group travels there. You become the guide to the city for the other PC's, and MOST of what you know about the place is true.

If a player isn't into all that detail, ask them to give you as little as the name of the town/city, and five facts they know about the town -- as simple as the best inn in town's stable boy is Reece and he used to gamble with me on Friday nights, or as complicated as these are the best places to buy armor, and this shop is reputed to have magic items for sale, and here's the shopkeeper's stats.

Another thing to get them vested is to give each one three rumors that they can investigate if they wish. They can convince the party to go looking for treasure from one rumor, or to use another rumor when they are trying to break into the Capital City's treasure vaults...