Can a DM expose a vampire character to sunlight with combat actions?

[Ferghis]

I'm wondering what actions, if any, a DM can have enemies take that capitalize on a vampire's vulnerability to sunlight. Say the enemies realize what they're dealing with, can they try to remove the character's cloak during combat? Or burn it?

EDIT: This would obviously only be done by an enemy that understands what the character really is, and knows that removing the protective gear would have a detrimental effect on the character. Neither of these details are givens.

Under my understanding of the rules, they wouldn't be able to do so, perhaps unless the vampire was helpless. I can't find any rules that allow a monster to remove a cloak or other such protective garment. Thievery only allows removal of small items via pickpocket. Maybe slight of hand could unfasten the closure on the cloak, but would you rule that such an action makes the cloak fall off? Maybe after a save? I couldn't find any other rules addressing this issue, so I'm wondering how this class feature comes into play in combat, if ever.

CHILD OF THE NIGHT
You gain the following benefits and weaknesses.
[...]
* You have vulnerable 5 radiant.
* If you end your turn in direct sunlight and lack a protective covering such as a cloak or other heavy clothing, you take 5 radiant damage (plus additional damage from your radiant vulnerability) from the sunlight, and you are weakened (save ends). If you drop below 1 hit point from this damage, you are instantly destroyed.

I can easily imagine a scenario that is specifically concocted to have the character begin combat without the protective gear, but that's not what I'm interested in addressing here. I just want to know if people think this particular class detail is meant to enter play in a normal encounter or not. I don't mean to forbid folks from talking about oddball cases, but I wanted to clarify my question.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Yes, a coup de grace should do what you want...

On a more sreious note, i would totally allow someone to try and snatch the cloak away: As a standard action when you have combat advantage, a thievery check could do it once per encounter. It will be a bit of damage and a daze, and the vampire can fasten the cloak again with a minor action, thus wasting a round, but not falling for this trick again...

(it would be akin a terrain power...)
It should of course be hard, and of course, only a creature recognizing you as a vampire and with sufficient knowledge should do that...

i.e.: it should happen very very rarely...

 

[phoffman]

In my own campaigns I would only do this to enhance the story, and not to specifically challenge the player.

Thievery has a -10 penalty in combat. But there is an encounter power that Rogues can get that would let them steal in combat without this penalty. It might be possible for a special Named NPC to have this ability too.

It might be cool to have a scenario where the party enters a building and heavy drapes cover all the windows. Minions (Or other NPCs) stand near the windows with ranged weapons while the main nemisis that has discovered the Vampire PCs true nature is enaged in the middle. After stealing the cloak from the vampire, he could systematically order windows uncovered. Making certain parts of the room weaken the vampire, forcing him to hide in the shadows to prevent that penalty.

The battle would likely revolve around forcing the Villian into the shadows so the party can work most effectively.

Because the character is a Vampire, its important to remind the characters that he isn't just another "rogue" that has a biting problem. Story points should likely emphasize that he isn't normal. It might be cool if the PC vampire has his own Helsing hunting him as part of his story arc. This shouldn't come up every combat, perhaps it should only be focused on while dealing with the vampires story arc.

 

[eamon]

Hmm, I don't know - I don't thing it's reasonable for a thievery check to steal something that's firmly attached in just one standard action. Somebody intentionally undressing sounds like it'd be steep for a standard action. Another creature doing that to them, while escaping notice for long enough to pull it off...?

I'd say no.

Coup de grace sounds like a better option; or turn it into a unique plot power.

E.g. have the party encounter a blink-thief; a thief that teleports short distances, until at some point he teleports you a short distance, but (with thievery check) somehow your sword didn't go along for the ride, what the.... !!! If introduced as an exceptional ability, it's easier to believe. And if later on such an ability happens to be used against the vampire; that's perfectly reasonable.

Stealing stuff easily is in general problematic; so I'd be careful here. After all, PC's (on others) are very dependent on gear - it's not just the vampire, it's everyone. And there are believability issues - if you can do that so easily, right under a seasoned, buttoned-down adventurer's nose, why isn't it happening all the time? So, that's why I'd avoid making it something normal that joe shmoe could imitate - keep it firmly in DM plot-hook territory.

 

[Ferghis]

I agree that the story can be engineered so the mechanic enters play. Another way is to have the building which shelters the vampire PC during the day firebombed in such a manner to force the characters to flee outdoors.

On the other hand, I think it's a DM's job to regularly play up to both a character's strengths and weaknesses. I'm wondering what it would take to play up to this particular weakness. A DC 20 or so religion monster (finally applied against a PC!) knowledge check (depending on what info was available). If successful, if the enemies have a chance, they would try something. But how does that work, mechanically? My worry is opening the door to "I grab his shield!" kinda crap! I firmly believe that what's good for the goose is good for the gander. So if a monster tried something like this, the PCs definitely should be able to as well.

As a standard action when you have combat advantage, a thievery check could do it once per encounter. It will be a bit of damage and a daze, and the vampire can fasten the cloak again with a minor action, thus wasting a round, but not falling for this trick again...

I like UngeheuerLich's idea because it's not too easy, so only very rarely would a PC try doing something like this. I'm not clear on the bit of damage and daze, though. You're saying that removing the cloak would do that to the PC? Why would the PC be damaged and dazed by the thievery check to remove the cloak?

 

[Dausuul]

Hmm, I don't know - I don't thing it's reasonable for a thievery check to steal something that's firmly attached in just one standard action. Somebody intentionally undressing sounds like it'd be steep for a standard action. Another creature doing that to them, while escaping notice for long enough to pull it off...?

We're talking about yanking off a cloak here, not stripping an armored knight naked. IMO, a thievery check and a standard action is reasonable. Cloaks are not really made to be worn in combat anyway.

(If the PC took more extreme measures like donning a helmet with a full visor, I'd rule that she was now immune to being "un-hooded," but at the cost of being unable to use blood-draining attacks.)

 

[S'mon]

Cloaks somehow protect vampires from sunlight? *sheesh* I can see them granting a bit of DR at best.

 

[Ktulu]

Cloaks somehow protect vampires from sunlight? *sheesh* I can see them granting a bit of DR at best.

Except that sunlight only makes them glitter, thereby only doing psychic damage from embarrasment.

 

[Ourph]

Cloaks somehow protect vampires from sunlight? *sheesh* I can see them granting a bit of DR at best.

Cloaks eliminate the damage done by sunlight, which is 10hp/round for a vampire character. So, yeah, cloaks provide DR10 against sunlight.

 

[webrunner]

You're the DM

Give your monsters the following power:

Melee
At-Will
Must have combat advantage
Target must have clothing protecting them from sunlight. Make a roll to grab. If successful, the target is not grabbed. Instead, the target's hood, etc, are pulled back, exposing them to sunlight. The target may use a minor action to re-place their hood.
Critical hit: The target's cloak is removed with more force. It is not completely removed, so they keep other benefits, but to re secure the cloak takes a standard action instead.

They can't say that's unfair because You're the DM.