Can a dozen orcs challenge a 17th level party?

[Agback]

I won't steal the encounter from them by not playing it out. I won't have the orcs magically not be there, or know not to attack these PCs, or change this part of the world to be now orc-free. The orcs haven't been eradicated or reformed. I won't steal the encounter this way. I won't have the orcs suddenly all be high-level barbarians and clerics. These will be the same orc raiders from the previous encounters.

I see. It's an anti-Plot Device. Something to show that the world is consistent rather than having its continuity egregiously overturned to serve the needs of challenge and plot. A bit of window-dressing for all it affects the charcters' progess through the challenges of the game, or for all it affects the developing situation of the plot. Just a random encounter to affirm that the world is consistent and reasonable.

 

[coyote6]

The party is returning to an area of the world where they started their adventuring years. The area is known for its vicious orc raiders. The party was on the receiving end of these raids many times.

Run it like you did all those other raids, then. If they weren't sneaking up in carefully-grouped waves backed by archers hidden atop the battlement-like heights of sheer cliffs, then don't have these guys be doing that. As you said, it's a bunch of punk orc raiders -- have them act like all those other orc raiders did. If those orcs attack in a ragged mass charge, then so be it -- they'll eat a fireball or flame strike, should the spellcasters decide to use such on some bad guys.

If they don't survive long enough for all the PCs to get an action, well, they don't. That's just what happens to low level mooks that attack high level types (I imagine spellcasters would be most likely to take out a whole group -- without Combat Reflexes & crazy enemies, Superior Cleave, or being completely surrounded by 2 ranks while wielding a spiked chain, fighter types usually have trouble killing a dozen in one round).

Or, hey, maybe the wizard will relish the chance to beat some orcs to the ground with their staff or whatever -- a 17th level wizard does get iterative attacks, after all. Then everyone can just beat the orcs down.

If you really want to give everybody a chance to slaughter some mooks, use more than a dozen; have it be a BIG raiding party. Depending on the size & composition of your party (e.g., if you have a sorcerer, a wizard, and a cleric of the God of Blowing Stuff Up, you might want more), use two, three, or four dozen (coming from a couple-three directions). Then the cleric can greater command/flame strike one bunch, the wizard or sorcerer can fireball/ice storm/chain lightning one lot, the fighter can get surrounded and Great Cleave through a pack, the rogue can bust out a few sneak attacks, etc.

Heck, you could pitch to the PCs' specialties. If the wizard loves lightning bolt, send a bunch of orcs at 'em down a gully (all lined up). If one PC is an archer, go ahead and put a dozen orcs w/longbows on the otherside of some gully -- the PC can slaughter 5 a round while the orcs try to get lucky with one hit. If one PC is some sort of jumping & tumbling machine (say, a monk), put one orc shaman on the far side of that gully, with some minions guarding him, so the monk can leap across, tumble through the minions, and deliver the Spring Attack-Improved Trip-Stunning Fist-2d8 combo o' doom on him. Etc.

Let the PCs get attacked by a dozen orcs, slaughter them, and then learn that a large raiding party has taken over a nearby fort/manor/hamlet. Let the PCs descend like the wrath of 17th level characters on 'em and chop 'em up.

Then on with the level-appropriate quest.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Fly
Dimension door, fly
Control weather and other elemental nastiness

He didn't say he expected them to win, merely that each PC get to take at least one action. These simple maneuvers will cause the PCs to maneuver a bit before they lay the smack down.

IMC most of the characters don't have fly items. Even if they do, it will take an action to activate + a move = fliers' actions. Same goes for Dim door.

And do your players *really* turn every stormy day into pretty blue skies? I'd have a high priest/archangel/elemental storm of the Storm God come and lay a Mark of Justice on them that activates if they nerf a storm.

 

[Darkness]

But some spells like Holy Word will end the orcs day flat. Any orcs within 40' simply die.

Well, they should - what you're describing in this sentence is overkill. In fact, IMNSHO, casting holy word on a bunch of low-level orcs is a waste of resources, as many lower-level spells (i.e., lower than holy word) can easily kill the orcs as well.

'course, if the orcs are the only fight that day, wasting spells is not a problem.

 

[Numion]

And do your players *really* turn every stormy day into pretty blue skies? I'd have a high priest/archangel/elemental storm of the Storm God come and lay a Mark of Justice on them that activates if they nerf a storm.

That'll teach them to use their abilities .. but of course, 17th level party would probably teach that high-priest/archangel/elemental some basic humility

Seriously, you like your gods that 'hands-on'?

 

[Stalker0]

As far as surprise its going to be really hard to surprise a 17th level party. Assuming they don't have foresight up already....probably one of them has a spot check mod of at least 20. So a bare minimum of probably 22 or 23, and that's one a 1.

The only way this fight will last a few rounds is to spread the orcs far out and be archers. And I mean FAR out, at least a good 100 ft. That will at least make the fighters have to run around to kill them.

 

[amethal]

Yes, it needs to be a combat encounter against 1st level orcs. No plot device, just request of the players, and verisimilitude. The party is returning to an area of the world where they started their adventuring years. The area is known for its vicious orc raiders. The party was on the receiving end of these raids many times.

Was there any particular spot where the party really suffered against the orcs? I'd suggest to them they go back there in order to get attacked.

The slaughter will be even sweeter if they've given the orcs a lot of terrain advantages.

In the interest of really rubbing it in, I'd also suggest to them that they give the orcs a free "surprise" round by pretending they haven't spotted them.

If I was the DM, I'd even go so far as to suggest that as I'm having to go to the trouble of setting up this massacre, the least the players can do is let each of my orc victims have an action before being slaughtered.

 

[Riverwalker]

So I will play out the dozen 1st level orcs like when the party was 4th level. That's what the players want. It will make the world seem more real, and will reinforce the fact the PCs are movers and shakers of the world.

I have done similar things in my games over the years. I've also had them face challenges that were beyond them. My players enjoy the change of pace. For those of you that know Necromancer products it will come as no surprise that we enjoy their work.

I would be tempted to run it as straight as you can - i.e. exactly what they faced when they were 4th. I know my players would then track them back to their stronghold and wipe out the tribe.

It might be kind of fun for the orcs to challenge the party first, and when the party refuse to hand over their gear have the orcs laugh confidently and release an ogre or pet troll on to the party.

 

[Capellan]

coyote6 is a wise man. Follow his advice.

 

[Oates]

I you must do this make the encounter interesting....(1) Double the number of Orcs.... (2) Have a couple of Orc Leader types especially a priest leader of Grummish[sp?] or the other Orc war god (No monster mythology at work ) who is at least 9th level (1/2 the pc level) and a combat leader (orcs follow the strong) 8th to 9th level, 2 subordinates to the leaders and a junior priest and perhaps an arcane spell caster[half orc sorc]. Up 1/2 the remainder to level 2-3, the rest RAW. They could be working for someone/something more powerfull than the PCs thus the encounter could be used as an adventure hook to progress into the land of Epic level adventuring.