Can a Slowed Creature Shift?

[keterys]

'Here, have a +4 bonus to your speed.'
'Sorry, slowed, does nothing.'

'Oh, hmm. Well, here - shift your speed + 4.'
'Oh, cool. Well, that's 2 + 4 = 6 squares.'

Run or shift speed + 4 or whatever are not bonuses to your speed. They're powers that reference your speed and do something else with it.

Similarly, if you shift half your speed, you'd shift 1 square cause your speed is 2. Not 2 squares because speed 6 halved is 3, but you're capped at 2. Totally different math equation.

 

[DracoSuave]

Slowed is still -incredibly- useful, especially when dealing with charging monsters, or monsters with flyby attack.

You just use it differently!

'I ready my Ray of Frost for when the monster initiates the second square of a charge/flyby.'

The monster starts its charge/flyby, and you go BREEEEEEEM and it is now slowed.

Now, slowed has this -other- effect that hasn't been mentioned in the thread that isn't relevent to the speed score. As the monster has moved 2 squares during that action, the slowed condition that is freshly applied stops its action... it doesn't care about speed for -this- part of the effect. And if the creature is flying by? It crashes if it does not move.

If you expect monsters to charge, readied slow pew pew beams are your friends.

 

[Markn]

That's a good point DS, about slow specifically stopping movement if you have already moved 2 squares.

I find it interesting that the Slow condition specifically points this out, yet no other condition is this explicit. For example, if you do a move action and then get dazed, you apparently still have 1 action left, because unlike Slow, this is not explicitly pointed out. The only reason I can see for slow to be specifically called out like this IS for the reasons you pointed out in your post.

 

[MarkB]

That's a good point DS, about slow specifically stopping movement if you have already moved 2 squares.

I find it interesting that the Slow condition specifically points this out, yet no other condition is this explicit. For example, if you do a move action and then get dazed, you apparently still have 1 action left, because unlike Slow, this is not explicitly pointed out. The only reason I can see for slow to be specifically called out like this IS for the reasons you pointed out in your post.

"Dazed" says you can only take one action on your turn aside from free actions. If you get dazed after taking an action, you cannot take any further actions that turn, because you've already taken one action on your turn.

Likewise, if you start your turn dazed, and use your one action to remove the Dazed condition (i.e. by triggering an extra saving throw), you can then take further actions, because you're not under any restriction as to how many actions you can take.

 

[pemerton]

And if the creature is flying by? It crashes if it does not move.

Why does it crash?

 

[eamon]

Now, slowed has this -other- effect that hasn't been mentioned in the thread that isn't relevent to the speed score. As the monster has moved 2 squares during that action, the slowed condition that is freshly applied stops its action... it doesn't care about speed for -this- part of the effect. And if the creature is flying by? It crashes if it does not move.

Well, the updated slowed rules mention that you cannot benefit from bonuses to speed, although you can use powers and take actions that allow you to move farther than your speed. I'd say it's very likely the intent is that if a power lets you move farther than your speed, you can take the action - even if you're slowed while taking the action, even though the slowed condition normally stops you if you've moved more than 2 squares. So - this doesn't work, except if you read RAW very literally, in which case - sure, there's definitely a valid line of reasoning here.

As to crashing, I think you're refering to the fact that when flying you need to move to avoid crashing? If so, the flying rules were updated - you no longer need to move at least two squares to avoid crashing (that whole crashing rule got removed; hover only pertains to stuns now). And even in the original rules, slowed would affect this since you still can move 2 squares. Or are you referring to some other cause for crashing?

 

[Saeviomagy]

If so, the flying rules were updated - you no longer need to move at least two squares to avoid crashing (that whole crashing rule got removed; hover only pertains to stuns now). And even in the original rules, slowed would affect this since you still can move 2 squares. Or are you referring to some other cause for crashing?

I believe that you still crash if you're flying and made prone.

 

[DracoSuave]

Why does it crash?

If a flying creature does not move more than 2 squares on its turn, it crashes at the end of that turn.

Thus, if the creature does not use its move action after the BREEEEEM, it crashes. This has many uses.

PS: I did a search of the errata under PHB and MM for the word 'fly.' There has been no errata to the minimum flying speed thing... it's still very much in the rules, unless you can produce it for me. The fly minimum distance is written in the MM, btw

I believe that you still crash if you're flying and made prone.

It's hardcoded into Prone itself now... what was removed was the ability to descend your fly speed before crashing. Now you simply crash automatically.

 

[Xeterog]

May update:
"The Fly Action" on page 10 of that update:
begins with: Page 47: The following Text replaces "The Fly Action" section...

and goes on to completely re-write the fly section. Minimum speed is not mentioned at all.
(July update fixed one bullet point they missed somewhere)

Clumbsy no longer relavant. Only hover makes any difference now (and really only if you are stunned while flying)

of particular interest is:

Remaining in the Air: A flying creature does not
need to take any particular action to remain aloft;
the creature is assumed to be flying as it fights,
moves, and takes other actions. However, a flying
creature falls the instant it is stunned, unless it can
hover.

interestingly enough, the MM2 fly speed and hover rules were not updated, and now appear to be in conflict with the DMG rules on flight.

 

[Infiniti2000]

'Oh, hmm. Well, here - shift your speed + 4.'

So, your argument is that +4 is not a bonus to your speed. Is it just that speed is simply a variable used in the calculation for a power? I think I follow your reasoning here.