Can Demons and Devils have class levels?

[hong]

Well, I guess "fiendix" was a bit surprising...

Kylearan

Yeah. I mean, everyone knows that the plural of fiendish is fiendishes.

 

[borc killer]

Most of them (I think all of them) advance by HD... Does it mean they can't get class levels?
Can a Balor be a Barbarian or a Kyton be a monk??
What do you think / what is allowed?

Thanks a lot!

Yes, they can, as everyone has already said. But you should also keep in mind that the goal of any Demon/Devil is to progress to its next form. If taking class levels helps with that then by all means do it but remember they lose all of that when they evolve.

And the power of the beasty should never be more than the next step up in the evolutionary chain. Why would a CR5 demon with 10 levels of barbarian want to lose power by progress up to a less powerful CR7 demon with no class levels? I could see one taking 3 levels of barbarian but any more progression than that should be to a new form. (those are just random numbers as I am no place close to a MM)

 

[robberbaron]

They covered variant alignment paladins in UA. The spell lists change slightly as well some of the skills.

Your point being?

 

[Hella_Tellah]

Keep in mind the guidelines for associated and nonassociated classes for NPC monsters. Associated class levels--those which directly contribute to the core abilities of a creature--increase CR on a 1:1 basis. Nonassociated class levels increase CR on a 2:1 basis until the creature has as many class levels in one class as it has hit dice, at which point that class becomes an associated class.

Associated Class Levels
Class levels that increase a monster’s existing strengths are known as associated class levels. Each associated class level a monster has increases its CR by 1.

Barbarian, fighter, paladin, and ranger are associated classes for a creature that relies on its fighting ability.

Rogue and ranger are associated classes for a creature that relies on stealth to surprise its foes, or on skill use to give itself an advantage.

A spellcasting class is an associated class for a creature that already has the ability to cast spells as a character of the class in question, since the monster’s levels in the spellcasting class stack with its innate spellcasting ability.

Nonassociated Class Levels
If you add a class level that doesn’t directly play to a creature’s strength the class level is considered nonassociated, and things get a little more complicated. Adding a nonassociated class level to a monster increases its CR by 1/2 per level until one of its nonassociated class levels equals its original Hit Dice. At that point, each additional level of the same class or a similar one is considered associated and increases the monster’s CR by 1.

Levels in NPC classes are always treated as nonassociated.

Succubi, for example, are intended more as stealthy creatures than as a direct combatants. Rogue levels would be associated levels for them (IMHO), and increase their CR on at one-to-one ratio. Sorceror levels are of questionable use to a succubus (IMHO) unless she has an awful lot of them, so two sorceror levels would increase CR by 1. Thus, a level 3 succubus rogue and a level 6 succubus sorceress would both be CR 10. After six levels of sorceror, however, a succubus would consider that an associated class, so a level 9 succubus sorceress would have a CR of 13, the same as a level 6 succubus rogue.

 

[Piratecat]

Yeah. I mean, everyone knows that the plural of fiendish is fiendishes.

And "Codices" are actually spelled "Coadacees."

 

[Pyrex]

It's my favourite way of spicing up an outside encounter.
A few levels of fighter for mastery of an exotic weapon (spiked chain), a few levels of ranger for two-weapon feats, heck, even a few levels of paladin (IMC paladins can be any alignment - they are holy warriors. Plenty of evil gods).

And we still give our DM grief about the Monk/Barbarian Half-Dragon Lizardfolk he set against he party.

 

[Nail]

Yeah. I mean, everyone knows that the plural of fiendish is fiendishes.

Thanks...now I'm having awful flashbacks to grammar class.

 

[Nail]

And we still give our DM grief about the Monk/Barbarian Half-Dragon Lizardfolk he set against he party.

How about the Warblade/Monk half-dragon lizardfolk Lich I sent against my players?

Good times....

When are class levels the wrong thing to do? Never, IMC.

 

[pawsplay]

Thanks...now I'm having awful flashbacks to grammar class.

My work here is done.

It's funny, you type something, you read it a hundred times, and it keeps saying the same thing until someone else reads it.

 

[Nail]

It's funny, you type something, you read it a hundred times, and it keeps saying the same thing until someone else reads it.

Editing someone else's work is always easier than reviewing your own.