D&D 5E Can I use animate dead to reanimate a zombie that has been killed?

[Flamestrike]

And that's a very good reason to rule in certain way. But I was trying to outline what the rules actually say. And rules do not use these terms in plain English sense. Plain English meaning and D&D rules definition of 'humanoid' don't align either.

The whole point of 5E was to use plain English and move away from that kind of thing though

Also, if you think that a slain zombie becomes 'a humanoid corpse' what happens if one casts revivify or raise dead on it?

It comes back to life as a Human (presuming the other preconditions for the spell are met).

If you cast Raise Dead on Timmy (a formerly Human) but now undead Zombie, nothing happens. If you cast it on Timmys corpse (a former Undead) it works just fine, because that Corpse is not undead. It's just... dead.

 

[Flamestrike]

True which is why undead a destroyed not killed, so sure a destroyed undead isnt dead

A destroyed undead is no longer undead either, just like a destroyed table is no longer a table, or a destroyed construct is no longer a construct.

 

[Tonguez]

A destroyed undead is no longer undead either, just like a destroyed table is no longer a table, or a destroyed construct is no longer a construct.

Correct

 

[Flamestrike]

Question for the people who argue for the existence of 'dead but also still somehow undead' creatures.

Raise dead explicitly does not work on undead

Is it your arguments that to inflict perma death all you need to do is animate someone as a zombie, thus permantly making them 'undead' and making raising them impossible?

Or does ending their state of undeath (and rendering them simply a dead corpse again) make them valid targets for raise dead?

I certainly side with the latter. You can't raise an animated human zombie (it's undead and not dead) but you can destroy it (ending its state of undeath, and restoring its state of death) and then raise it from the dead as the original humanoid creature.

 

[Tonguez]

I certainly side with the latter. You can't raise an animated human zombie (it's undead and not dead) but you can destroy it (ending its state of undeath, and restoring its state of death) and then raise it from the dead as the original humanoid creature.

where do you get that interpretation?

that means PCs can stake and kill Vlad the Undead Vampire so he’s now a destroyed undead - by your logic he becomes a humanoid corpse that I can now happily cast raise dead On?

If a zombie in undeath is destroyed, it is a destroyed object it cant be raised nor reanimated

 

[Flamestrike]

where do you get that interpretation?

that means PCs can stake and kill Vlad the Undead Vampire so he’s now a destroyed undead - by your logic he becomes a humanoid corpse that I can now happily cast raise dead On?

If a zombie in undeath is destroyed, it is a destroyed object it cant be raised nor reanimated

Yeah, Vlad can be raised (as a human) in his non Vampire form if destroyed. When destroyed, he is no longer undead (quite literally) and his remains are a valid target for Raise dead (barring the time restriction seeing as he died aeons ago).

There are canonical examples of this happening (undead creatures being killed and then raised as their original selves).

 

[Tonguez]

Yeah, Vlad can be raised (as a human) in his non Vampire form if destroyed.

There are canonical examples of this happening

Be cool if you can cite such an example

 

[Flamestrike]

Be cool if you can cite such an example

From the Zombie entry specifically for starters:

Once turned into a zombie, a creature can't be restored to life except by powerful magic, such as a resurrection spell. - MM pg. 315

Vlad is likely not a valid target as his soul must be willing (it likely wouldn't be) and not blocked from returning (and the Dark Powers would likely not allow it) but thats a special circumstance really.

Clearly though Ressurection expressly restores a dead Zombie to Life (and not to Undeath).

 

[Paul Farquhar]

A destroyed undead is no longer undead either, just like a destroyed table is no longer a table, or a destroyed construct is no longer a construct.

By my understanding of the rules, a corpse is classed as an object.

 

[Flamestrike]

By my understanding of the rules, a corpse is classed as an object.

Crawford confused the issue with a tweet on revivify cast on a dead Zombie bringing back a Zombie.

Hes wrong for the record. A Zombie dropped to 0HP is destroyed (so not a valid target for revivify) unless it's also a creature that died in the last minute (so a valid target for revivify) on account of dying, being animated and then destroyed and then being targeted with revivify all inside 1 minute, revivify simply won't work at all on one