Can magic items fulfill class requirements?

[Mouseferatu]

Wow. That makes me 0-for-2 in the past two rules questions I've tried to answer from memory. It's a good thing I always have the books open when I'm actually writing.

In my defense, however, I'll argue until the cows come home that this is a flawed rule, in terms of flavor if not mechanical balance. I hate the idea of magic items allowing access to PrCs and feats, and I'll certainly be house-ruling it in my games. But as this isn't a house rule question, I should have been more thorough in looking up the answer before declaring it. Mea culpa.

 

[Crothian]

I agree that its a flawed rule and its one that ignore.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I like the rules as written. It can be quite flavourful to have a magic item that allows someone to take a prestige class they might not otherwise have access too. It makes the item that much more important as well.

Don't kick it until you've tried it.

 

[BSF]

I'll follow that trend. Of course, some of the PrC's in my game world wouldn't worry about it. In the process of applying to join the organization, it would likely come up that the PC didn't really meet the qualifications. Still, it would be possible to slide in for some PrC's. But I don't consider PC equipment to be sacred. I will destroy it if the story will be stronger by that.

 

[Chun-tzu]

I don't like the idea of using magic items to gain pre-reqs either. In general, that is.

However, I think allowing a Ring of Telekinesis to qualify for Master of the Unseen Hand is an interesting idea, and one I'd allow. For one thing, a TK Ring goes for 75000 GP and so characters shouldn't even have one until level 14-ish (13 at the earliest), if you go by the wealth guidelines. Second, the PrC requires 8 ranks in Concentration, meaning you'd need a couple levels in a spellcasting PrC or Monk to qualify.

On the flavor side, I'd see such a character as focusing on learning to unlock the true power of the Ring, instead of unlock his own powers. It's spending a few levels to get really good at operating a TK Ring.

That said, I'm not terribly fond of the Master of the Unseen Hand, mainly because it's not what I'd want a telekinetic warrior to be. I'd rather see a TK warrior doing things like creating force shields and throwing TK bolts and summoning weapons to his hand. Psions and Psychic Warriors from Expanded Psionics Handbook don't gain a lot of benefit from becoming Master of the Unseen Hand because their TK powers are different from the magic version (and this PrC uses the magic version as its basis). Great idea, disappointing execution.

Edit - I meant, "spellcasting class" above, not PrC.

 

[Len]

It's interesting to look at this question from an in-game perspective. I can see how some groups or organizations (PrC's) might allow people to qualify with magic items and others might not.

For example, perhaps the Order of the Bow would require prospective initiates to demonstrate their skill without any magical enhancements, but the Shadowdancers might accept anyone who can hide and dance even if they have to wear gloves of dexterity (although there would be some snide comments from others). A fallen paladin could become a blackguard regardless of how he turned evil.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Complete Warrior p16:

Meeting Class Requirements: It's possible for a character to take levels in a prestige class and later be in a position where the character no longer qualifies to be a member of the class. An alignment change, levels lost because of character death, or the loss of a magic item that granted an important ability are examples of events that can make a character ineligible to advance farther in a prestige class.

If a character no longer meets the requirements for a prestige class, he or she loses the benefit of any class features or other special abilities granted by the class. The character retains Hit Dice gained from advancing in the class as well as any improvements to base attack bonus and base save bonuses that the class provided.

Now, skill points could be argued either way, perhaps; they are not BAB or base save bonuses, but they also fall outside of the 'Class Features' section.

But Weapon and Armor proficiencies, spells per day, bonus feats, etc, etc are all lost.

-Hyp.

Pity the Dragon Disciple who achieves dragon apotheosis; as a dragon, he no longer qualifies for Dragon Disciple, and so loses all abilities.... including dragon apotheosis!

Or the monster who barely qualifies for the Survivor prestige class (SS). After the first level the saves are all higher than his character level, and so he no longer qualifies for the class.

And look at one of the Ur-Priest requirements: "The character must have no ability to cast divine spells." And under class features: "An ur-priest gains the ability to cast a number of divine spells." So upon gaining the first level in the class he disqualifies himself from it.

IMHO the CW 16 rule is silly, and should be disregarded.

 

[Scion]

Personally I like that items can help one qualify for odd things, it adds an extra dimension to the game and makes going for unlikely goals more possible.

Whereas those prereqs which make the class unuseable once it is entered are silly, it demonstrates bad prc design not a bad rule for the overall game. Possibly because those who made the prcs werent very well versed with the rules or something similar (something similar would be simply forgetting or misremembering, we all do that).

Simple fix: those prcs which disqualify themselves have an added qualifier about those prereqs only to initially gain the prc and not for any continuing abilities, easy

 

[Cheiromancer]

Equally easy: that prcs have a line about those who no longer satisfy their pre-requisites. But that the default be that the class abilities are retained.

 

[dcollins]

Moreover could you say use a ring of telekinesis to satisfy the telekentic requirement for a Master of the Unseen hand (complete warrior)?

Okay, to complete the matrix of all possible opinions, here goes:
(1) I agree by the rules as written you can use an item to qualify for feat or prestige class prerequisites;
(2) I also think that this is a bad idea generally, and wish there was a rule prohibiting it (unless I'm acting as a player ;
(3) In any case, I would not allow the above case to work out. The prerequisite is to "cast" telekinesis (as I understand it). Triggering a ring of telekinesis is not the same as casting the equivalent spell.