Can my mount and I both Charge?

[Brace Cormaeril]

Hello.
I declare a charge against an orc.
I have a reach weapon which exceeds my mounts reach. Can I charge and splat the orc when I'm within reach, then my mount hits him when she completes her charge?

I want to build a monkey-gripping lance wielder who rides a huge dragon. Thanks for your input.

 

[frankthedm]

Welcome to a rather blurry area of the rules.

To fulfill the charge, you have to stop and attack as soon as possible and not move afterward.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Can I charge and splat the orc when I'm within reach, then my mount hits him when she completes her charge?

Strictly, you can make a single melee attack when you're within reach, then your mount his him when she completes her charge. You don't get the +2 on your attack, since your attack is not occurring at the end of the charge; however, the double damage from a lance will apply, since you are attacking from the back of a charging mount.

Lance: A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount.

Combat while Mounted: If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can’t make a full attack. Even at your mount’s full speed, you don’t take any penalty on melee attacks while mounted.

If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge.

-Hyp.

 

[Brace Cormaeril]

Welcome to a rather blurry area of the rules.

To fulfill the charge, you have to stop and attack as soon as possible and not move afterward.

Neat, so a flying mount could "fly-by", and the mounted lancer could attack for double damage.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Neat, so a flying mount could "fly-by", and the mounted lancer could attack for double damage.

That would require the rider to have the Ride-By Attack feat.

In the absence of the feat, if the mount is just flying past the target, it is not charging, and therefore the attack is not 'from the back of a charging mount', it's just from the back of a moving mount.

-Hyp.

 

[frankthedm]

Hello.
I declare a charge against an orc.
I have a reach weapon which exceeds my mounts reach. Can I charge and splat the orc when I'm within reach, then my mount hits him when she completes her charge?

I want to build a monkey-gripping lance wielder who rides a huge dragon. Thanks for your input.

BTW Monkey gripping a weapon does not change the charcters reach. A centaur, who does not get extra reach uses the same sized weapons as an ogre. The large tall creature gets far more reach out of the deal. The medium being who wields the large lance still uses his own reach 5', doubled to 10' because of the reach weapon.

 

[Shin Okada]

Assuming your PC is a medium sized one, by RAW, No, you can't,

From SRD,

If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge).

So, that is the mount who charges, not the rider. The rider just get the benefit and penalty of charging. And the mount must follow the rule for "Movement During a Charge".

From SRD,

Movement During a Charge: ...... First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent.

You and your mount shares the same space, and a huge dragon has 15 foot reach. Thus it stops at that distance (15 foot to the foe). Now, monkeygrip feat does not change the reach of the lance. So, if you are a medium-sized creature, your lance's reach is still 10 foot. So you cannot "make an attack at the end of the charge".

The reach of the mount's longest attack and the reach of the rider's weapon must be the same.

It is funny that strictly by the rules as written, usual horse rider cannot make a lance charge

Ride by Attack feat does not help. First of all, the feat's description is broken. By the combat rule, the rider does not move by himself nor take charge action by himself. The mount does. And, even if we ignore that mistake, the feat's benefit is "you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again". So, it just allows you to move AFTER the charge is solved. The initial procedure of charging does not change at all.

Of course, mounted charge rule in PHB is a rather silly rule flaw. And many playgroups are ignoring it and using some kind of house rules.

#Edit
If you are actually a large rider with 10 foot natural reach, you can attack at 15-20 with your lance. So, when the huge dragon stops at the point 15 foot to the enemy, you can use your lance.

 

[Elethiomel]

The "You must move to the closest space from which you can make an attack" rule does not say that you have to stop at that space. You can continue moving as long as it is in "a straight line directly toward your opponent" before you make your attack.

 

[Shin Okada]

The "You must move to the closest space from which you can make an attack" rule does not say that you have to stop at that space. You can continue moving as long as it is in "a straight line directly toward your opponent" before you make your attack.

I don't read it so. "you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent." seems to be defining the destination of the movement.

But even if your interpretation is right, it works when the there is a point in which both the mount and the rider can attack.

Assuming the mount has natural reach of 3 (can attack 1-3 squares away) and the rider is a medium-sized humanoid with a lance (can attack 2 squares away only). In this case, if your interpretation is right, the mount can move to the space 2 squares away from the opponent. Then both the mount and the rider can attack.

Assuming the mount has natural reach of 3 (can attack 1-3 squares away) and the rider has natural reach of 3 with a lance (can attack 3-4 squares away only). In this case, if your interpretation is right, the mount can move to the space 3 squares away from the opponent. Then both the mount and the rider can attack.

But usual horse-riding human knight with lance still cannot make a mounted charge by RAW. Because the horse must move to "the closest space from which you can make an attack" and that space is adjacent to the opponent. And thus the knight cannot use his lance.

And, a large giant with lance on a huge mount with natural reach of 2 (like frost giant on mammoth) still has the same problem, too.

 

[Andras]

If the rider has Ride-by-attack (assume medium rider w lance on large mount w 5' reach) when the rider and mount charge, the rider attacks at 10', the mount takes a further 5' move and attacks at 5'.

Check the FAQ on charging with a lance, it says that technically, if you use the ride-by-attack feat, you must take at least 5' of movement after the attack.

When using the Ride-By attack feat, you must conduct your
charge so that you move in a straight line toward the closest
square from which it is possible to attack your chosen foe, so
long as it is a square that allows you to attack and then continue
on in the straight line of the charge. You still must attack your
foe the moment you reach that square. (Although the feat
description doesn’t say so, you and your mount also must move
at least 5 feet after you make your attack to get the benefit of
the feat.) This is a special rule for charging when using the
Ride-By Attack feat. Note that the Flyby Attack feat (discussed
in the previous question) does not require you to move in a
straight line. You merely make a single move and take another
standard action at some point during that move.