Can this be right?

[MerakSpielman]

The main question seems to be: Is a Full Attack a single action wherein you get to roll several to-hit dice, or is Full Attack a fancy way of saying you're performing a series of separate attack actions?

edit: Thanks for this thread, BTW. I was toying with the idea of throwing a spiked-chain one-trick-pony NPC against my players. I don't suppose I could nudge you to post your entire stat block, and make my life that much easier?

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

The main question seems to be: Is a Full Attack a single action wherein you get to roll several to-hit dice, or is Full Attack a fancy way of saying you're performing a series of separate attack actions?

edit: Thanks for this thread, BTW. I was toying with the idea of throwing a spiked-chain one-trick-pony NPC against my players. I don't suppose I could nudge you to post your entire stat block, and make my life that much easier?

Neither. See above for the quote(s) from the SRD - they are backed up in the DMG and PHB as well.

If, for any reason, your character has multiple attacks (from high BAB, etc), the only way to make all of your attacks is to use the full round attack action.

It's specifically stated that you can make your first attack, evaluate the results, and choose to continue with a full attack or move or do something else not requiring a standard action.

It's also clearly stated that full round attack action is a series of attacks. The implications are that each attack roll is a separate attack action.

Regardless of your intrepretation of a full round attack action however - Karmic Strike bypasses the question.

It specifically states that when an opponent succeeds at a melee attack or melee touch attack, you get an immediate attack of opportunity.

Well, since the SRD and PHB are pretty clear that a full round attack is a multiple number of attacks... That's pretty clear cut


I'll post the character stats and character developement plan asap - I haven't actually sat down and generated the full character yet, just her levels. It'll be a Swashbuckler first level, and fighter straight thereafter, but the swashbucker could easily be replaced with fighter - you lose a few skills, and you lose tumbling entirely, which makes it extremely difficult to get into whirling dervish later.

 

[James McMurray]

Felix: I agree mostly with your post, but have to take issue with one thing: spiked chain is by no means a substandard weapon.

It does only 2 points less average damage then a greatsword (2d4 instead of 2d6). It has reach and allows attacking close. It can be used to both trip and disarm. Basically, its the best core weapon out there unless you don't have a feat to spend on EWP.

Pax: He doesn't quite have 1,000hp. I think its closer to 975. He also doesn't use biofeedback for some reason. I assume he's waiting to see how it gets changed for 3.5.

Check his last fight with Darien. He does have masochism now. +47 to hit and damage on his last attack sequence against me. Of course, his hits were reflected back on him, so it didn't matter, but it'll give somebody else some serious fits!

I'm still wondering why he hasn't gone the biofeedback / item of Heal route. Those two combined with his massive hit points would mean it would take a loooooong time to drop him. Instead of just the looong time it takes now.

 

[Darklone]

Tilla: If you trip him (and succeed, how good is your strength?) he may easily do his second attack at a -4 while being prone. Looking at some fighter builds I got around here, he's pretty likely to hit you nonetheless.

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

Tilla: If you trip him (and succeed, how good is your strength?) he may easily do his second attack at a -4 while being prone. Looking at some fighter builds I got around here, he's pretty likely to hit you nonetheless.

Chances of tripping are increased by a) good strength and b) enlarge potions/enlarge item.

Not to mention, if we're talking 12th level, that's imp trip - that's a trip + attack if tripped... And if prone and attacks me, my next attack of opportunity has another +4 to hit him.

However - note that you can have Karmic Strike with a spiked chain as early as 2nd or 3rd level... It gives you double their attacks, provided they hit you of course.

Also note that with enlarge + swashbuckler, you've got a 15' reach with your spiked chain that you can tumble to manuever, so he's still got to reach you... If he's prone at 15' or 10', he can't hit with that great big broadsword. It's nice that 5' adjusts are free... Once tripped at 10' or 5', back off 5' to force an AoO as he stands up, then another as he leaves the threatened square.


Like I said - I admit it's a one trick pony - this is great against humanoid melee combatants of medium size or smaller. Just about anything else however, and you'll be lucky to come out ahead


In a more abstract consideration of the fight, I get my 2d4 damage and he gets his 2d6 damage - but I can attempt to connect twice as often as the fighter can (provided he actually hits me on his attacks)

Try doing the probability on that one -lol- It's a tad complicated to me

Oh, and I found out that I am not restricted to light armor - so my AC will match his

 

[Felix]

The Hun:
You might get the chance to hit twice as often, but remember, he won't just be doing 2d6... the feats you spent on Deft Opportunist and Karmic Strike, he spent on Weapon Spec and Greater Weapon Spec... he'll be doing 2d6+4. That's 11 average, while you'll be doing 5 average... if you hit him twice as much he's still out-doing you.

But you were right. This is good schtick against humanoid (maybe not dwarves, har har) melee combatants of medium size or smaller.

McMurray:
D'oh! I hadn't noticed the damage increased to 2d4... It was so bad with 1d6 damage in 3.0 I disregarded it in 3.5. But it's still a schtick weapon... trip, disarm, attack at reach & up close, double weapon... If a weapon has all of those abilities it has to have some serious drawbacks to balance it. I just don't like the drawbacks, myself... though at 2d4 it has gotten more reasonable, eh?

 

[James McMurray]

The Spiked Chain has always been a 2d4 weapon.

I'm not sure what you mean about drawbacks. Compared to the Greatsword (the other two-handed weapon of choice) you're doing 2 less average damage. But you've gained the increased reach, disarming, and tripping capabilities. The reach alone makes the two equal, since the extra attacks it grants you will usally make up for the lower damage (and then some).

Chck out the arena in my sig line. There's a reason why the majority of the fighter types there use a spiked chain.

 

[Hypersmurf]

But it's still a schtick weapon... trip, disarm, attack at reach & up close, double weapon...

You can only use a spiked chain as a double weapon if you have the Master of Chains PrC class ability that allows it.

-Hyp.

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

You can only use a spiked chain as a double weapon if you have the Master of Chains PrC class ability that allows it.

-Hyp.

Or have an insane GM like mine - who has told me my character can, at the cost of a feat, wield her spiked chain as a double weapon ::shudder::

Anyway - there was a request for a writeup stat block?

Not knowing what level you wanted, I pulled a slight variation of the stat-block:


Paksenarrion - Human female
Level 1 - Fighter
Str: 17; Dex: 18; Con 16; Int 17; Wis 15; Cha 16 (there's a reason I've moved all my games to stat points, not die rolls like my GM still allows)

Feats: (G) Dodge; (F) Combat Expertise; (G) Karmic Strike
(G=General, F= Fighter Bonus Feat)

Attacks: +4/2d4 + 3 (Spiked Chain)

Advancement:
Level 2 - Fighter2
Feats: (F) Ex. Wpn. Spiked Chain (Previously used rapier)

Level 3 - Fighter3
Feats: (G) Combat Reflexes

Level 4 - Fighter4
+1 Dex
Feats: (F) Improved Trip

Level 5 - Fighter5

Level 6 - Swashbuckler 1
Feats: (V) Weapon Finesse (virtual feat from swashbuckler class); Deft Opportunist (+4 AoO attack roll)

Level 7 - Fighter6
Feats: (F) Improved Disarm

Level 8 - Fighter 7
+1 Dex (20 Dex = 5 attacks of opportunity)

Level 9 - Fighter 8
Feats: (F) Mobility; (G) Sidestep
Skills: Tumble at rank 10, bluff at 2-4 range (in class for Swashbuckler ).

Attacks at Level 9:
Base Attacks: +14/+9 / 2d4+3 (barring magic on weapon) Spiked Chain
Paks can make up to 5 attacks of opportunity in 1 round at this point. If Karmic Strike has been declared, so has Combat Expertise (Karmic Strike = -4 AC, CE = -4 Attack, +4 AC, DO = +4 attack on AoO's), and she can use an AoO to hit a melee opponent that has hit her. Each AoO is made at her highest base attack (+14) if Karmic Strike is declared, or at +18 if not. Each AoO is typically a trip attempt as she gets a free attack on a success (imp trip).

She hopes to purchase an item of enlarge person at lower levels, thus extending her reach to 15' instead of 10', while decreasing her attack and AC by -1 each.


Tactics: She prefers to trip her opponents as they approach, but regardless of whether or not she trips them, sidestep allows her to move on each AoO, so that she can always ensure a new AoO on the opponents next turn. One for standing up, one for approach = 2 moves she can make... She can also disarm on an AoO (+2 to disarm attempts with chain, plus imp disarm, plus Deft Opp), but usually prefers to attempt such against a prone foe.


At 10th level, she'll be going into Dervish PrC, and enable even greater movement around the battlefield.


Is that good enough or do you need more stats? She's only second level right now.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Thanks! Cut... Paste... Instant NPC!