can this strategy be stopped?

[RigaMortus2]

It can be stopped, easy.

He can't do it that way; he can't get constant coverage from the spell.

You see, Timeless body also prevents helpful effects ... which Timeless Body, in and of itself, is. As the TB doesn't expire until the END of his turn, he can't manifest it again on his turn (well, he can, it just won't affect him, and will expire when he doesn't expect it to).

Okay, he can maybe ready an action to manifest it after it expires.... but then there's a forced gap where he isn't protected, and he's subject to concentration checks from things like damage due to a readied action to disrupt spellcasting, continual damage, casting defensively, and what have you.

Well the other way this tactic "defeats" itself is with the wording of the spell

Duration: 1 round
Your body ignores all harmful (and helpful) effects, beginning when you finish manifesting this power and ending at the end of your next turn. While timeless body is in effect, you are invulnerable to all attacks and power.
This power can not be quickened

So you extend it from 1 round to 2 rounds, however, you body still only ignores harmful effects until the end of your next turn anyway. The end of your next turn is at the end of round 2.

hmmm, of course, upon further reflection, the last sentence can override even that, since technically the power would still be in effect...

I give up...

Defeat him with the power of love?

 

[KarinsDad]

Well the other way this tactic "defeats" itself is with the wording of the spell

So you extend it from 1 round to 2 rounds, however, you body still only ignores harmful effects until the end of your next turn anyway. The end of your next turn is at the end of round 2.

Actually, I think the Extend wording overrides the wording in the power. If the power is extended on round 1, it's duration is doubled and at the end of his turn in round 3, the power expires. The wording in the power is merely a clarification of how the duration works in the normal duration case. IMO.

He can't manifest it in round 3. It explicitly doesn't expire until the END of his turn ...

Good point. Missed that.

after he's taken his standard and move actions. While it's up, it prevents such things as itself from affecting him (he's invulnerable to them) so he can't layer another one on. If he finds a way to manifest it after his turn ends (such as with a readied action) then he can put another one up ... but there must, of necessity, be that window where he isn't covered. Sure, it takes a readied action to take it down.... but anyone can do that, and they at least have a chance. He might be doing other things in the meanwhile, true, but so can his opponents; he's putting up walls? Okay, so you can't deal damage to him at the moment... but you can buff, wall things up, get into position, climb onto the mobile statue's back to keep him from going anywhere, Dimensional Lock the area, ready to counterspell with a Greater Dispel Magic or something so he can't put it back up, take out his allies, Summon helpers, Resilient Sphere yourself (really fun to Resilient Sphere yourself, cast Mislead, cast a Silent Quickened Dimension Door, and start zapping away with Silenced stuff that doesn't give away your location.....) or whatever. Or you can stick your tongue out at him, and play mirror. See who runs out of power points first. And who remembered to pack the most dorjories and Powerstones..... and... gee... pity you've been worn down by all those other encounters where you've pulled this trick, and I've been sitting here waiting at basically full power points....

Sure, the opponents could be doing any of these things (many of which are anti-this power in some way). But, if the DM is running them properly, unless they actually know that he has manifested this power and know what it does, it should be several rounds (at least 3 or 4 and possibly many more) before NPCs start attempting alternative solutions.

In the first 3 or 4 rounds (minimally), they should be targeting other PCs, performing normal tactics, hitting him with fire and when that does not work, hitting him with compulsion spells and when that does not work, hitting him with weapons, etc.

Granted, if they know what he has done, then that changes when they should adjust their tactics accordingly. But, just because someone takes no damage from Fire and is not affected by a Compulsion spell does not mean that he is immune to all effects and this should not be the first thought that enters an NPC's mind.


Also, he does not need to ready. He could Delay until after his own turn. Literally according to the rules, this means that another opponent could get an entire turn in (if he has the exact same init number), but otherwise, it is still the small "opponent readying" window we have been discussing.

Resilient Sphere yourself (really fun to Resilient Sphere yourself, cast Mislead, cast a Silent Quickened Dimension Door, and start zapping away with Silenced stuff that doesn't give away your location.....)

Assuming the "Nothing can pass through the sphere, inside or out" does not stop Dimension Door spells. Just because Wall of Force allows certain effects to pass through it does not mean that Resilient Sphere does.

One of the purposes of the sphere appears to be that of a temporary prison ("The subject may struggle, but the sphere cannot be physically moved either by people outside it or by the struggles of those within."), but it is not much of a prison if you can DD out of it.

And yes, I know about the Astral Plane Teleport argument, but the phrase "nothing can pass through" could be ruled to trump that (DM depending), just like "nothing can pass through" could be ruled to trump Gaze attacks that could get through a Wall of Force (btw, WoF is invisible and RS is not).

And, even if DD could get through it, control of a spell through it might not be allowed (i.e. only 3 rounds of Mislead) and of course, casting a different spell while concentrating on Mislead should not be allowed (I'm not sure of any rules on concentrating on one spell and casting another, but I would not allow it). So, a max of three rounds of Mislead, one of which was used up with Dimension Door (you cannot take any other actions after Dimension Door in the same round, hence, can you continue to concentrate on the spell?).

Mislead is one spell. Can it co-exist on both sides of the Sphere when "nothing can pass through"? This is similar to the one Summon Monster is used to summon 3 creatures and you dispel one of them. Do all 3 vanish since it is one spell?

All in all, even if this tactic is allowed, it should not be allowed for the entire duration of Mislead. At most, two rounds of Silenced spells while off to the side before the Mislead and Greater Invisibility of Mislead fade. Given that the Psion has two+ rounds of EBT and more if he can get it off multiple times, this does not appear to be that great of a tactic for this discussion.

 

[Jack Simth]

Okay, it's not easy easy, but it can be done.

And, of course, identifying what he just manifested is what such things as Psicraft skill checks or Analyze Dweomer are for. Sure, those four Fighters are going to be toast... but the Psion, Wizard, Cleric, and Fighter aren't.

It's a counterable tactic - lots of ideas in this thread, from non-direct things such as Forcecage to direct things such as Disjunction, Greater Dispel Magic, Dispel Psionics, Null Psionics Field, readied actions, and the like. It's still brutal, however.

But then, it should be; he's popping off the equivalent of a 10th level spell every other round. Prime candidate for an endurance campaign..... maybe a Warlock with Flee the Scene. You buff, he vanishes. Again, and again, and again....

Or just a few platoons of soldiers. All nice and spread out, in anti-spellcaster tactics, with ranged weapons and stuff.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

The simplest thing is: The spell says "until the end of his next turn" so the DM should just decide that it can't be extended, or if it is, it still won't protect him longer than usual. I think that's the spirit of the rule here, and the DM always has the last word.

Ban magic too! It's the same thing, after all! Ban class levels! Ban dice! Ban your friends from coming over to play! Ban Ban Ban!

/sarcasm
Seriously, don't troll.

That's rich.

 

[airwalkrr]

Jack Smith hit it. The spell is worded in a way you cannot benefit from continuous coverage. Since its duration ends at the end of your next turn, your opponents have from then until the beginning of your next for you to manifest it. Extending it does effectively give you two rounds to be immune instead of one though. I don't think that is horribly game-breaking.

 

[quetzyl]

This is a 19th level psion ability. By 19th level, there are numerous ways high level spellcasters can be practically indestructable. This power cancels all buff spells, uses up a lot of power points and prevents him doing anything for half the time. I just don't see this tactic being a problem at 19th level. Compared with a buffed, acid immune wartroll inside a hole in a shaped antimagic field this tactic just isn't that useful.

Cheers,
quetzyl

 

[glass]

Kill the psion´s friends while he´s so busy protecting himself. And the psion´s friends´ family. And their friends too. Then kill the psion when he runs out of power points, and his pet rock.

'...and that bitch he took to the prom!'


glass.

 

[glass]

The simplest thing is: The spell says "until the end of his next turn" so the DM should just decide that it can't be extended, or if it is, it still won't protect him longer than usual. I think that's the spirit of the rule here, and the DM always has the last word.

That would be my attitude.

Just like heat metal. You can extend it if you want to, but all that does is cause the target to radiate transmutation magic for a few extra rounds.


glass.

 

[Simm]

Couldn't you just dispel it everytime it is cast. Remeber dispel magic is affecting the power itself rather than the body of the person it is cast upon.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I wounder if you could just put something over his face to suffocate him? Does the power remove his need to breathe? But what if he's flying?

IMO, Dispel should work. Banning it's interaction with Extend Power could also work.