D&D General can we make better dragons?

[MatthewJHanson]

A blue who was partnered with a martial spellcaster who rode him.

This reminds me of a bit of dragon lore that I use in my game.

Dragons find it offensive to say that somebody "rides" them. You ride animals, and it sets up a power relationship where the rider has the power.

If you are very nice and the dragon likes you, however, they might carry you. This puts the dragon in the active position, and of course when you carry something, you can always drop it if you like.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

This reminds me of a bit of dragon lore that I use in my game.

Dragons find it offensive to say that somebody "rides" them. You ride animals, and it sets up a power relationship where the rider has the power.

If you are very nice and the dragon likes you, however, they might carry you. This puts the dragon in the active position, and of course when you carry something, you can always drop it if you like.

The biped in my case rode the dragon rather like a parrot rides a pirate. Riding instead of carrying allowed the dragon to keep all of his claws free.

 

[Yaarel]

The biped in my case rode the dragon rather like a parrot rides a pirate. Riding instead of carrying allowed the dragon to keep all of his claws free.

Heh, that reminds me of how I apply "grappling". To successfully grapple a dragon, means to be hanging on for dear life.

 

[dave2008]

The biped in my case rode the dragon rather like a parrot rides a pirate. Riding instead of carrying allowed the dragon to keep all of his claws free.

I think you misunderstood @MatthewJHanson's point. It is not about where the person is, it is about the intention of the word. A rider has agency over that which it rides; however, a carrier has agency over what it carries. So from a dragon's perspective they are carrying a person, whether it is on their back in a saddle or in their claws is largely irrelevant.

 

[dave2008]

I do not have copies of such books..

Well they do,mostly, what you are asking for so you should pick them up if you can.

 

[the Jester]

He possibly was talking about stories, with 4e having lots of good lore (there are from memory three named dragons each integrated into the setting in Monster Vault: threats to the Nentir Vale) and on preview has given examples from the Draconomicon v2, but 4e dragons were also far far mechanically far more interesting than 5e ones.

I've been giving a lot of thought to straight up importing 4e dragons' special abilities to my 5e dragons. Though they're big scary monsters, in 4e, they were big scary monsters that each played differently. In fact, there are so many 4e monster design elements that I wish had carried forward that I'm probably going to go through and do a significant revision of many of my homebrewed monsters to improve them and make them more interesting.

You know what I really miss, and have already started using in some monsters? More interesting recharge criteria for abilities. "Recharges when first bloodied." "Recharges when an ally this creature can see drops to 0 hit points." "Recharges when this creature starts its turn with no enemy within 5'."

 

[dave2008]

I've been giving a lot of thought to straight up importing 4e dragons' special abilities to my 5e dragons. Though they're big scary monsters, in 4e, they were big scary monsters that each played differently. In fact, there are so many 4e monster design elements that I wish had carried forward that I'm probably going to go through and do a significant revision of many of my homebrewed monsters to improve them and make them more interesting.

You know what I really miss, and have already started using in some monsters? More interesting recharge criteria for abilities. "Recharges when first bloodied." "Recharges when an ally this creature can see drops to 0 hit points." "Recharges when this creature starts its turn with no enemy within 5'."

It is pretty easy to import 4e powers to 5e monsters. I do it regularly when updating monsters. For dragons, it is even easier - just give them one or more of their lair actions as an action or legendary action. Lair actions are where 5e dragons differentiate themselves between types. I wish they had included this customization in the stat block instead of all the dragons being so cookie cutter.

 

[cbwjm]

I've been giving a lot of thought to straight up importing 4e dragons' special abilities to my 5e dragons. Though they're big scary monsters, in 4e, they were big scary monsters that each played differently. In fact, there are so many 4e monster design elements that I wish had carried forward that I'm probably going to go through and do a significant revision of many of my homebrewed monsters to improve them and make them more interesting.

You know what I really miss, and have already started using in some monsters? More interesting recharge criteria for abilities. "Recharges when first bloodied." "Recharges when an ally this creature can see drops to 0 hit points." "Recharges when this creature starts its turn with no enemy within 5'."

I use some "bloodied" abilities now. Had a wyvern brute that had "Uses it's tail sting instantly when bloodied" Almost killed the bard due to it being a crit (and, incidentally, the first time I rolled anything that hit in that encounter).

An ancient dragon instantly regaining its breath weapon and then using it would put the fear of dragons into the players. Matt Colville has a 4e running the game video about poaching abilities from 4e and he uses a red dragon as the example. Apparently the more powerful ones had both an aura of flame and their breath weapon didn't so much ignore resistance to fire as strip it away which combos nicely with the aura. Definitely some cool ideas for dragons, and other monsters, in DnD.

 

[Blue]

13th Age had "d20 industry standard" dragons in the core book when it came out, but both the Bestiary and the Bestiary II (two of the best books I've bought for any system, ever) had more imaginative dragons with nice high fantasy niches. Worth a look, since the SRD with them all is online for free.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

I think you misunderstood @MatthewJHanson's point. It is not about where the person is, it is about the intention of the word. A rider has agency over that which it rides; however, a carrier has agency over what it carries. So from a dragon's perspective they are carrying a person, whether it is on their back in a saddle or in their claws is largely irrelevant.

Yes, that's what I was going for. Thanks.