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WotC Can we salvage Toril?

Azzy

KMF DM
for sure, I can put a two dots on a piece of paper, village, dungeon, first 3 sessions done.
🙄

but even back in 1989 I needed something much much more substantial and "real" for my players to be fully immersed, that was the beauty of the realms, looks guys here is your world and this is where you are.
One can homebrew something "substantial" and "real" for players to be "fully immersed" without it being "a massive undertaking" requiring "thousands of hours to get something vaguely coherent". I should know, my friends and I were homebrew creating settings with their own cultures, geography, histories, etc. since the 80s.
 

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Stormonu

Legend
I think Maztica, Kara-Tur, and the Land of Fate* would have been better off if they were never part of Toril, and had been their own isolated worlds. That's how I'd run it if I were to ever return to those areas of the map.

As far as Aber-Toril goes though, I wouldn't mind seeing a return to the map areas of the Grey Box, including the Dalelands, Inner Sea and Thay. We've gotten some tidbits of Chult via Tomb of Annihilation and The North via Rime of the Frostmaiden. They're just done as a sort of "Campaign Supplement as Adventure", not a way most folks are happy with.

* Hordelands could be dropped completely and I wouldn't miss it, otherwise it probably would best fit as part of Kara-Tur
 

eyeheartawk

Works 60% of the time, every time
They did release a couple of books on Candlekeep and Waterdeep at least. They are namely adventures but I guess they have useful setting information. It's still more 5e books than any other setting so far, it's just in line with the low-volume books release of 5e.
The whole, whopping 4 pages of setting information about Candlekeep in the Candlekeep book was easily the best part of that book.
 

Right so given that, Ed and peeps release Border Kingdoms, lets convince him to release a replacement for Maztica.

Check this thread out


per Ed

There is no Maztica (or Osse) in the original Realms, but instead: Laerakond, and SE of it/SW of Faerun, there's Thuin, a N/S-long-axis continent with dark-skinned human peoples (many squabbling city-states)

I want a Laerakond supplement !
Isn't Laerakond in the 4E Forgotten Realms as Returned Abeir?

Laerakond on the FR Wiki
 

Greggy C

Adventurer
Supporter
Isn't Laerakond in the 4E Forgotten Realms as Returned Abeir?

Laerakond on the FR Wiki
Ok so seems like I have more research to do !

"Meanwhile, in Toril, magical energy subsumed the continent of Maztica and transported those lands to Abeir"

So in actuality the current Toril map doesn't include Maztica, so I would have to either find an updated version of dndcombat.com/toril or hire someone to edit it hmm.
 

And this why FR will get ruined in every edition.

WoTC: So, um, we've made Forgotten Realms the default setting. Pretty much every single AP that we've made is set in the Forgotten Realms. We've got a movie coming out set in the Forgotten Realms. There are books by Salvatore coming out- yeah, those are FR too. Plus there's practically an infinite amount of legacy FR content. Oh, have seen the excellent Forgotten Realms Wiki?

FR Fans: WHY DO YOU HATE THE FORGOTTEN REALMS? WHERE IS OUR FR MATERIAL????

Correction they made the Swordcoast the default setting were almost everything is set. Hence the meme the Remembered realms (circling the Swordcoast) and the Forgotten Realms. All that content you mention is almost all for a single region of the setting.
 

pukunui

Legend
Ok so seems like I have more research to do !

"Meanwhile, in Toril, magical energy subsumed the continent of Maztica and transported those lands to Abeir"

So in actuality the current Toril map doesn't include Maztica, so I would have to either find an updated version of dndcombat.com/toril or hire someone to edit it hmm.
Maztica came back during the Sundering, when WotC returned the Realms map to its 2e/3e state.

Maztica is mentioned in both the SCAG and the Tomb of Annihilation books.
 


Or are we forever more stuck with Sword Coast and the rest of the world ignored?

Will WOTC ever redo Matzica, Karatur and any other problematic regions based on real world history?

Thats the key question in my mind. Will they, or will they just ignore it for the next 20 years?

Lets assume they ignore it. Is it possible for Candlekeep historians to work with Ed to redo those regions into something that we can all be proud of? Get some content that everyone who cares about the realms can get behind, promote, and be the true replacement?

Or is it just that nobody cares anymore about FR, and similar to Critical Role, its better everyone builds their own world and there is no longer a common shared world experience.

It's coming in 2024.

1. Everytime a new edition comes out the Forgotten Realms gets a new Campaign Setting book (and sometimes alot more).

2. Ray has said the setting book revisit is in 2024, and the revisit is obviously the Forgotten Realms, via a mix of the process of elimination and the fact that SCAG didn't get the job done, it was too small.

3. They are radically changing a lot of humaniod races like Drow, Orcs, Gnolls, Kobolds, Gobliniods, making them more diverse culturally, so that is a major setting change that will need to be explore. For example the new Lorendrow, Aevendrow, and Unadrow division including new cities will need to be explored. The really needs a FRCS5.5e to explore

4. The year before in 2023 the Forgotten Realms movie comes out, they will want to incorporate it's events into the FRCS 5.5e and to milk new FR fans generated by the movie.

5. The Forgotten Realms will have even more MtG art by then to milk for the project

6. It's been a long time by 2024 since the last FR setting book came out and the SCAG is by far the oldest and most flawed setting book in D&D 5e, because it's too small with mechanics that needed more public playtesting.

7. The Forgotten Realms is WotC's most popular setting and even with how hostile the MtG scene was to none MtG settings in D&D, it was the most profitable MtG summer set ever for example. Just as they are redoing the core books are getting new versions for 5.5e, same for FR.
 


I know he worked on projects like Borderlands, but none of that is what I'm talking about, I'm talking about parts of Toril that are basically a copy/paste of real world history, like Maztica.
While this is literally the origin of several FR cultures, nowadays making fantasy cultures that are just a copy paste of real-world cultures is not well regarded.
 

They didn’t even make it easy for themselves! Frex, in their haste to undo all the 4e changes, they got rid of the orcish Kingdom of Many-Arrows. If only they’d kept it on the map, they could now be using it as a means to introduce non-evil orcs into the Realms without having to retcon the entire race.

Oh the Orcs are still there, just further back as is their King, they can bring Many Arrows back any time.

And Many Arrows isn't the only ones, they could bring back the peaceful Orc tribes who worshipped Eldath from previous editions, and the Orcs of Zakhara who follow the same religion as the rest of Zakhara, and maybe tribes absorded into the Zhents, and Orcish minorities in various cities that were the by product of Orc war heroes that fought the Tuigan Hordes protecting Faerun, and the Orcs that are freed slaves in some cities, and the Ultra Religious Grey Orcs who came from a world ruled by Orcs with magic powerful enough to summon Avatars of their Gods, and Scro Spelljamming Crews that got stranded on Toril, and the Orcs civilizations they make up whole cloth.
 

Greggy C

Adventurer
Supporter
While this is literally the origin of several FR cultures, nowadays making fantasy cultures that are just a copy paste of real-world cultures is not well regarded.
Right, thats the point of the thread. They can't really continue to work on those cultures anymore, so what do with them on the map.
 

Stormonu

Legend
Right, thats the point of the thread. They can't really continue to work on those cultures anymore, so what do with them on the map.
They can, they’ll just need fresh and respectful takes on them if they do. A recent well-done (IMHO) DM’s guild product tackled Zakhara, for example.

However, as I’ve said before, I would prefer if they move Maztica and the like off of Faerun.
 

It is my hope that they'll rethink everything with 6th edition and... reboot every setting.
Personally, I feel they could solve lots of their problems by placing all the new 6e books in a brand-new setting. A mix of the new, a touch of the old, a pinch of the bizarre. Then, they can do APs in each setting, with an attached setting guide. Do Shadowfell, Mystara, Forgotten Realms, etc. All this, plus, APs that explore their new world - the default setting.
 


bennet

Explorer
Personally, I feel they could solve lots of their problems by placing all the new 6e books in a brand-new setting. A mix of the new, a touch of the old, a pinch of the bizarre. Then, they can do APs in each setting, with an attached setting guide. Do Shadowfell, Mystara, Forgotten Realms, etc. All this, plus, APs that explore their new world - the default setting.
They plan to remove combat in 6e, not sure I will be playing that edition.
 

Here is the thing. Someone did redo Matztica in a sensitive way here:

But even with that, first comment is

View attachment 149920

basically you will never succeed unless the region is razed and rebuilt. And for that we need a F.R. task force to work with Ed Greenwood under permission from WOTC.

Or just ignore people like that poster, it's 1 person, it's not representive of the fandom, the downloads dwarf the critisms for that product by a massive margin and that product isn't even official or canon, it's just fan fiction. Too much time on social media gives a distorted perspective of the public. It has 65 reviews and is still at 5 stars.

PS I just decided to download it after reading the glowing recommendations in the reviews.
 

Personally, I feel they could solve lots of their problems by placing all the new 6e books in a brand-new setting. A mix of the new, a touch of the old, a pinch of the bizarre. Then, they can do APs in each setting, with an attached setting guide. Do Shadowfell, Mystara, Forgotten Realms, etc. All this, plus, APs that explore their new world - the default setting.

I'll admit being the default setting finally, for first time with 5e, seems to have no real benifit for the Forgottens Realms. Defauft settings seem cursed.

FR only has the SCAG and a bunch of deeply flawed adventure books. It's lost almost all of it's novel line with was the heart and soul of the setting. It got more and better hard cover books, when it wasn't the default setting. Go back to properly supporting FR and make Exandria the default setting.
 

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