Can you apply the same metamagic feat twice?

[DarkJester]

As above, can you have a Empowered Empowered Fireball? If you can, how would that math work? I'd assume 1.5+1.5 = Spell Damage x2, as per the D&D multiplying rules.

 

[BlackSeed_Vash]

I dont know if you can, but how would you go about doing this?
I assume by having the feat and using its corisponding rod.

 

[Harm]

No, PHB pg88

 

[Vargo]

I'm curious, why was this rule implemented? I can't see any breakage that would come out of being able to dump multiple empowers/enlarges/whatevers on a spell, especially since the save DC remains the same.

 

[DarkJester]

I dont know if you can, but how would you go about doing this?
I assume by having the feat and using its corisponding rod.

Well, I was considering simply preparing the spell that way, but then Harm pointed out...

No, PHB pg88

Ahh, yes I thought I saw that somewhere. Thank you.

I'm curious, why was this rule implemented? I can't see any breakage that would come out of being able to dump multiple empowers/enlarges/whatevers on a spell, especially since the save DC remains the same.

O, I can definitely see the abuse, at least in certain situations. Namely with effects that improved metamagic by reducing the metamagic's cost. In a core only environment I don't think I'd have a problem with being able to double empower a fireball.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

I'm curious, why was this rule implemented? I can't see any breakage that would come out of being able to dump multiple empowers/enlarges/whatevers on a spell, especially since the save DC remains the same.

It might not seem broken. Empowering fireball twice = Delay blast Fireball, but without the delay part (or the higher DC). The problem is the balance is not true for all spells. Scorching Ray, 2nd level, Empowered 3 times, becomes more powerful than Polar ray, by alot. (3 rays, each dealing 10d6, for a total of 30d6, vs 1 ray ~20d6, less if the mage doesn't have a 20 caster level) Sure, it can't pierce a Globe of Invulnerability, but it's still 50% better than Polar ray.
I think the designers thought about this and just said flat 'no stacking' just in case...

 

[hong]

Polar ray is just a gimped spell, really. I might change it to "force blast" and have it deal force damage (bypass incorporeal miss chance, ignores energy resist).

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

In 3.0, there were ways of breaking stacked metamagic, which the Sage made legal (boo!). Sometimes they were broken when mixed with something else (eg cheaper metamagic, etc).

Now maybe you can't abuse it ... yet. Eventually someone is going to create a cool spell that would be amazingly flavorful and perfectly balanced as long as you can't stack metamagic. I'd hate for such a spell to have to be banned because of a metamagic loophole. I bet such spells exist, but I don't have a lot of splatbooks to comb for examples.

Metamagic is broad. It can affect nearly every spell. I think the limits should remain on metamagic, as removing nearly any limit can break all kinds of otherwise cool and balanced spells.

 

[Hypersmurf]

In 3.0, there were ways of breaking stacked metamagic...

At 2:14am EDT August 29, 1997, the Simulacrum became self-aware...

-Hyp.

 

[GwydapLlew]

At 2:14am EDT August 29, 1997, the Simulacrum became self-aware...

-Hyp.

You're a bad man.