Can you CHOOSE to turn your spell into a full-round action?

[kreynolds]

all we have is denial here... plain and simple.

Nope. I just disagree. Thinking you are wrong is not the same thing as denial, plain and simple. However, if I though I was right and you were wrong, that might be denial, depending on the circumstances. Unfortunately, I'm not saying I'm right. I'm only saying that you are incorrect.

Note: Don't try to out-psych a psych buff.

 

[Caliban]

Again - I reiterate the following that people deny absolutely:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Standard A = MEA + Partial A - given definition standard action
Standard A = MEA + MEA - given definition Double Move

Therefore -
MEA + Partial A = MEA + MEA - by substitution
Partial A = MEA - by elimination
Standard A = Partial A + Partial A - by substitution

To state that "a standard action is not two partial actions" goes nowhere fast. How do you defeat the above logical and reasoned thought process? - you don't ... trust me you don't.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

all we have is denial here... plain and simple.

I see a lot of ignorance and denial on your part, if that's what you mean.

You can use a Partial Action to do anything a MEA/Move can do, but you cannot use a MEA/Move to do anything a Partial Action can do. A Partial Action is "bigger" than an MEA, to put it one way.

(To put it in really simple terms, a Partial Action is like a box that can hold 5 bricks, and an MEA is like a box that can hold 4 bricks. You can put 4 bricks in either the Partial Action box or the MEA box, but you can't put 5 bricks in the MEA box, only the Partial Action box is big enough to contain them. )

Your logic is flawed, we pointed out exactly where it was flawed, and you have done nothing to refute it (because you cannot).

Specifically, your second premise (Standard A = MEA + MEA - given definition Double Move) is incorrect.

A Double Movement = MEA + (Partial Action used to perform an MEA).

A Standard Action can be used to perform two Move/MEA actions because you can replace the Partial Action with an MEA, but you cannot replace an MEA with a Partial Action.



Your (lack of) logic is hereby "defeated."

 

[kreynolds]

I see a lot of ignorance...

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Dude, don't let him bait you into throwing insults around. You guys tell me, all the time, not to let people bait me, as I only end up lowering myself to their level.

This has been a paid-for public service announcement.

 

[Arkham]

Back on topic...

Can a caster choose to extend his casting time to a full round in order to unleash massive destruction on enemies the next round?

No. There is a metamagic feat that allows this
in Tome and Blood called Delay Spell.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

I do believe I posted this already - but here goes again...

Definition - partial action - PHB glossary
Definition - MEA - PHB glossary
read - apply logic; you get

Standard A = MEA + Partial A

However, if I thought I was right and you were wrong, that might be denial, depending on the circumstances. Unfortunately, I'm not saying I'm right. I'm only saying that you are incorrect.

I did forget to make the exeption in your case... but

1. Everyone except you IS in denial.
2. You yourself state that my logic strikes you as "wrong" - but cannot prove why. Good - that means think about it until you can explain it.
3. People are creatures of habit; Psych majors know this. Time to break some people of some bad habits. That is what those of us who are free thinking Philosophy majors do.

Well, you could define it as Partial+MEA/Move, but the game mechanics treat is as a single action, not two seperate actions.

Caliban, it is precicely because of the fact that the game treats it as one action that this whole thing WORKS:

Standard A = MEA + Partial A - given definition standard action
Standard A = MEA + MEA - given definition Double Move

Therefore -
MEA + Partial A = MEA + MEA - by substitution
Partial A = MEA - by elimination


I do the following -
Standard A = Partial A + Partial A - by substitution
as demostration for the "four spells in a round" w/haste bit. Omit it if you like.

You get stuck doing one of four things.
1. altering the definition of Double Move
2. altering the definition standard action
3. breaking the rule of substitutional logic
4. admitting they are the same - and responding accordingly.

One and two cannot be done without fundamentally changing the system. As I am not WotC - I can't do this.

Three leads to the impossibilities of "acting only on your turn" counter-intuitiveness and the static universe absurdities that follow.

Four - while possibly unpleasant in the fact that we must change our way of thinking, is a whole lot more palatable to the "suspension of disbelief" than three.

 

[Caliban]

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Dude, don't let him bait you into throwing insults around. You guys tell me, all the time, not to let people bait me, as I only end up lowering myself to their level.

This has been a paid-for public service announcement.

Pointing out an unpleasant truth is not an insult.

Fact: He is ignorant of how the rules actually work in this area and he is denying all evidence to the contrary.

Being ignorant is just a lack of information, and can be corrected.

If I had wanted to insult him I would have pointed out that he is stupid and/or delusional in addition to being ignorant. Since I'm trying not to insult him, I didn't want to bring those points up.

 

[kreynolds]

If I had wanted to insult him I would have pointed out that he is stupid and/or delusional in addition to being ignorant. Since I'm trying not to insult him, I didn't want to bring those points up.

Well, can't blame a guy for tryin'.

Hey! Somebody note that I actually tried to do some good around here!

 

[Caliban]

Caliban, it is precicely because of the fact that the game treats it as one action that this whole thing WORKS:

Standard A = MEA + Partial A - given definition standard action
Standard A = MEA + MEA - given definition Double Move

Wrong, wrong, wrong. You do not understand the definition of Double Move.

Everthing else you have posted is based on a false premise, and is therefore false.

Until you address this fallacy in your thinking, there is little else to be said.

Standard Action = MEA/Move + Partial
Full Action = Partial + Partial
Partial > MEA.
Full Action > Standard Action.

Double Move = Move + (Partial Action used to perform a Move).

Just because you can use a Partial Action to do a Move Action does not mean that a Move Action can be used to do a Partial Action. That is false logic.

 

[kreynolds]

2. You yourself state that my logic strikes you as "wrong" - but cannot prove why. Good - that means think about it until you can explain it.

I don't need to think about it. I'm not going to think about it. Why? Simple. It's a complete waste of my time. Sorry, but that's the honest to god truth right there. By the way, I said your logic stumped me. I never said the rules stumped me. Those are two completely different things.

3. People are creatures of habit; Psych majors know this. Time to break some people of some bad habits. That is what those of us who are free thinking Philosophy majors do.

Yes. People are creatures of habit. However, my only habit in regards to you is disagreeing. As far as your desire to "break some people of some bad habits", couldn't it be possible that you are in fact, wrong? Now, I vant you to look at dis picture and tell me how it makes you feel...

 

[Lord Ben]

If a Hamburger is made of meat does that mean all meat is a hamburger? That's the kind of "logic" you're throwing around.

A partial action can be substituted for a move action, but a move action cannot be substituted for a partial action. That's basic.

You can't apply math logic to game mechanics, but even if you could then you've missed some basic math principles anyways.

If Bob gives you 2 apples and Mary gives you two apples then you have 4 apples. But just because you have four apples doesn't mean they each gave you two. Some days Bob will give 3 and Mary 1, but you still have 4. THAT is a basic math principle. Just because X + Y = Z doesn't mean that everytime you have Z you also have X + Y.