Can you cleave after making an AoO?

[Tony Vargas]

I consider a Cleave from an AoO an AoO. The person being Cleaved into doesn't necessarily have to have provoked an AoO, but it counts against the AoO's you can make against them for that round. Not exactly by the rules, but I feel it makes sense.

That would reduce the problem, especially the more extreme possible abuses.

 

[Tony Vargas]

And this fighter is making 5 AoO's per round, how?

Before I got to your post (just before, actually) I realized that one and went back and edited it. For the extreme example of 10d6+50 damage from the tactic, I was assuming STR & DEX boosted to ~18, a magic sword, maybe specialization etc... in the hands of about an 8th level character.

 

[Artoomis]

Re: Re: Re: Just to sow further confusion...

...Mobility gives an AC bonus against movement-related AoOs. The bonus attack from the Cleave was generated by a movement-related AoO, the character with mobility is, himself, moving and provoking an AoO, so it makes sense that Mobility would work against it...

That's wrong.

[Quoite]The character gets a +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against attacks of opportunity caused when the character moves out of or within a threatened area....[/quote]

Note that mobility does NOT give you +4 AC vs. movement-related AoOs. It gives you +4 AC vs. movement-related AoO's that YOU provoked.

And the list of problems goes on...

 

[Tony Vargas]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Just to sow further confusion...

Note that mobility does NOT give you +4 AC vs. movement-related AoOs. It gives you +4 AC vs. movement-related AoO's that YOU provoked.

Normally a distinction that should not matter.

But, in this discussion, just one of many worms crawling out of the can...

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Just to sow further confusion...

And the list of problems goes on...

Seems more like people just clinging to their molehills...

FD

 

[kreynolds]

Well, you have the level of control implied by teamwork. If one of your allied can summon up some badgers or toss of bottle of angry hornets next to you, he can pro-actively generate some AoOs for you.

I hope you aren't suggesting that your buddy can summon a badger that will generate an AoO for you so that you can kill it and cleave.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Just to sow further confusion...

Note that mobility does NOT give you +4 AC vs. movement-related AoOs. It gives you +4 AC vs. movement-related AoO's that YOU provoked.

And the list of problems goes on...

Good point. Then he doesn't get the bonus. Simple as that.

And the list of problems goes on...

What's the problem? If he didn't provoke the AoO, he doesn't get the bonus.

 

[Artoomis]

I hope you aren't suggesting that your buddy can summon a badger that will generate an AoO for you so that you can kill it and cleave.

Perfectly legal. You could summon a whole bunch of critters from Summon Monster I - make them opponents of the chosen party member (they could spit on him, or something) and have them all draw AoOs.

Lots of chances for AoO's with cleaves. Very abusive, very ugly.

You could do this WITHOUT great cleave.

Obviously, this should not be allowed.

As I said, the problems continue...

 

[kreynolds]

Obviously, this should not be allowed.

Obviously. Thus it isn't. Unless of course you don't mind your character, and the caster, receiving an alignment shift.

As I said, the problems continue...

Problem solved.

Besides, that's not a problem with the rules, but a problem with the player. A hero wouldn't approve nor partake in such tactics. Evil people, sure, but that's different.

 

[Artoomis]

Obviously. Thus it isn't. Unless of course you don't mind your character, and the caster, receiving an alignment shift.

Alignment shift? Why on earth would that happened? Summoned monsters are not "real" - no real harm comes to them, they just "disappear."

This is nothing but a clever use of rules. Of course it should be disallowed - the easiest way to do that is to disallow a Cleave from an AoO.

Both of those would be house rules to prevent abuse of the rules. Seems fine with me.

The logic of allowing a Cleave with an AoO is strained, whereas the logic of disallowing it is straight forward.

The strict rules allow it - as they allow the Summon Monster trick.