Can You Empower Claws of the Beast?

[Nail]

...and I've an aversion to 'lines' based on 'common sense', because if there's one thing that's consistent about common sense, it's that everyone draws the line in a different place!

You'll get no argument from me on that point!

Yet, as soon as any of us applies an interpretation to the rules, it all boils down to "what we feel makes sense."

Anyway......

For Claws of the Beast, the damage is dependent on the size of the caster. It is also be dependent on augmentation, which is the psionic equivalent of casting a different spell; the fact that augmentation is different than empower is evident in the fact that you can both augment and empower a psionic power.

Since damage is dependent on the size of the caster (or rather the size of the claws created) it's not empowerable. That seems simple and consistent.

BTW, for those of you that would allow empowering, would you also allow maxamizing? (I'm not suggesting maximization would make the power too powerful - 'cause it doesn't, by the numbers.) I have difficulty with a spell creating a natural weapon that then always does maximum damge when it hits. YMMV.

 

[Nifft]

It's a weapon. It uses an attack roll to hit. Just like Claws of the Beast.

Yup. Under my interpretation, Flame Blade, Flaming Sphere, etc. would all NOT be Empowerable.

Fireball, Cure Light Wounds, Touch of Idiocy -- these would be Empowerable.

-- N

 

[KarinsDad]

BTW, for those of you that would allow empowering, would you also allow maxamizing? (I'm not suggesting maximization would make the power too powerful - 'cause it doesn't, by the numbers.) I have difficulty with a spell creating a natural weapon that then always does maximum damge when it hits. YMMV.

Would you have a problem with Maximized Flame Blade?

How about Maximized Fireball?

Does Maximize really make sense for anything?

 

[Hypersmurf]

BTW, for those of you that would allow empowering, would you also allow maxamizing? (I'm not suggesting maximization would make the power too powerful - 'cause it doesn't, by the numbers.) I have difficulty with a spell creating a natural weapon that then always does maximum damge when it hits. YMMV.

I'd allow Maximize for anything I'd allow Empower.

Claws of the Beast - yes. Flame Blade - yes. Flaming Sphere - yes. Spiritual Weapon - yes. Summon Monster (for damage) - no.

-Hyp.

 

[RigaMortus2]

For Claws of the Beast, the damage is dependent on the size of the caster. It is also be dependent on augmentation, which is the psionic equivalent of casting a different spell;

I don't see augmentation as the psionic equivalent of casting a different spell. I see it increasing the effect of the base power. (Most) spells increase their potency with caster level. Fireball's damage increases the higher level you go. Bull's Strength lasts longer the higher level you go. You wouldn't equate casting Fireball at caster level 7 as casting a different spell had you cast it at caster level 9, would you?

Also, there is this blurb found under Augmentation:

Some augmentations allow you to increase the number of damage dice, while others extend a power’s duration or modify a power in unique ways.

METAPSIONIC FEATS
As a manifester’s knowledge of psionics grows, he can learn to manifest powers in ways slightly different from how the powers were originally designed or learned. Of course, manifesting a power while using a metapsionic feat is more expensive than manifesting the power normally.

Augmentation seems more similiar to Metapsionic feats than it does to casting a different spell (or manifesting a different power).

 

[Someone]

The new polymorph subschool spells -the Form of Whatever series- include your new stats in the spell description. Can you empower/maximize them and deal big damage with your recently adquired teeth and claws?

 

[Marshall]

D'OH! Now there is a hole in the "in the spell description" argument..

 

[Nail]

These two statements don't seem dischordant to you?

I don't see augmentation as the psionic equivalent of casting a different spell. I see it increasing the effect of the base power.

.....modify a power in unique ways......

If I change fireball so that it is now "electric ball", and yet use no metamagic feat to do it, is it not a different spell?

 

[Hypersmurf]

D'OH! Now there is a hole in the "in the spell description" argument..

I don't have Complete Mage... are the stats in the spell description effectively a cut'n'paste from the monster description?

If so, I'd consider that the same as Shillelagh - information which appears in the spell, but which is not defined in the spell.

-Hyp.

 

[KarinsDad]

The new polymorph subschool spells -the Form of Whatever series- include your new stats in the spell description. Can you empower/maximize them and deal big damage with your recently adquired teeth and claws?

D'OH! Now there is a hole in the "in the spell description" argument..

The only Polymorph Subschool spell that actually has the creature information within it is the 9th level DragonShape spell which cannot be Empowered or Maximized anyway.

The only other Polymorph Subschool spell I know of is Trollshape which does not have the creature information within the spell description.

Course, this is only within PHB II. If another book has the Polymorph subschool in it, that's a different issue. But just within PHB II, this is not pertinent to the discussion (yet).