Can You Empower Claws of the Beast?

[Eldritch_Lord]

Then why does Empower specifically say Magic Missile's effect would be (1d4+1) x 1.5 instead of (1d4) x 1.5 +1? Or did they errata that out?

Any dice roll (other than the specified d20 rolls Dandu referenced) are variables, so the +1 in magic missile's 1d4+1 is indeed part of the "variable numeric effects"--1d4+1 gives the whole random range, so it's still variable and numeric despite being a +X added on to a dice roll. However, in the case of magic missile, the spell itself is doing 1d4+1 per missile. In the case of the claws, the power itself is only doing 1d4; the total damage is a variable, yes, but the variable numeric effects of the power are only that 1d4, so you deal 1d4*1.5 plus any other mods.

 

[Vegepygmy]

The variable part of the claws isn't just the 1d4 though: It's anything that can modify that damage, because it's a variable.

Wrong.

 

[Visigani]

RAW: Yes. A fireball creates a bead of flame (an object or an effect if you will) that then detonates into Xd6 damage. The Claws power creates an effect (the aura or psionic energy that your claws are imbued with) that then does Xd4 damage.


However, it doesn't pass the "Sane" test.

Based on a strict interpretation of the rules it could be argued that Warlocks are Tier 0 (via their imbue ability).

 

[Jackinthegreen]

On the topic of Warlocks, I wouldn't say that their Imbue ability is so overpowered as to make them Tier 0 even when you factor in always being able to take 10. If that were the case then an Artificer surely competes at the same level.

Dandu, I agree that attack rolls and such aren't affected by Empower. Simply put those are properties of attacking in general, not of the specific spell. Empower Spell does say "effects of the spell" after all. Along that line I guess I have to agree that the Empowered Claws only get their Xd4 multiplied and not the bonus from Strength or whatever. That begs the question on whether crits benefit from Empower, since crits are a part of attacking too.

On the one hand, the specific crit wouldn't have happened without having cast the spell, which means the crit is part of the spell. On the other, the crit is still part of attacking and maybe should overrule the 1.5 empowerment because a crit does at least 2x the normal damage. I guess as a DM I'd have to see whether the character is abusing it and the effect is enough to unbalance the game.

 

[Visigani]

On the topic of Warlocks, I wouldn't say that their Imbue ability is so overpowered as to make them Tier 0 even when you factor in always being able to take 10. If that were the case then an Artificer surely competes at the same level.

Dandu, I agree that attack rolls and such aren't affected by Empower. Simply put those are properties of attacking in general, not of the specific spell. Empower Spell does say "effects of the spell" after all. Along that line I guess I have to agree that the Empowered Claws only get their Xd4 multiplied and not the bonus from Strength or whatever. That begs the question on whether crits benefit from Empower, since crits are a part of attacking too.

On the one hand, the specific crit wouldn't have happened without having cast the spell, which means the crit is part of the spell. On the other, the crit is still part of attacking and maybe should overrule the 1.5 empowerment because a crit does at least 2x the normal damage. I guess as a DM I'd have to see whether the character is abusing it and the effect is enough to unbalance the game.

A spell that is empowered that criticals benefits from the critical. However, the damage from claws of the beast cannot, in and of itself, critical.

A ray may critical and also be empowered... this cannot.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

A spell that is empowered that criticals benefits from the critical. However, the damage from claws of the beast cannot, in and of itself, critical.

A ray may critical and also be empowered... this cannot.

The issue is the claws are an inherent part of the spell just like a ray is an inherent part of the spell. If an empowered ray can benefit from the crit, the claws should be able to too.

 

[Visigani]

No, because the effect of the Claws does not require an attack roll to land just like the bead of the fireball doesn't require an attack roll to land.

Unless you're suggesting Fireballs can crit?

 

[Jackinthegreen]

No, because the effect of the Claws does not require an attack roll to land just like the bead of the fireball doesn't require an attack roll to land.

Unless you're suggesting Fireballs can crit?

You're the one who said "A ray may critical and also be empowered."

 

[Visigani]

Because a ray requires an attack roll to land. In order for the effect to take place is an attack roll required? If the answer is yes then that spell effect can critically strike.

For Claws of the Beast no attack roll is required... your hands are ensorcelled regardless.

 

[Dandu]

I am under the impression that Claws of the Beast will incur a crit on a 20.