Can You Flank With a Ranged Weapon?

[Olaf the Stout]

Ok, so to make things clear: By the RAW you can flank with a ranged weapon in 3.5?
Is that right?

I got the impression that the answer was no (unless you are using it as a melee weapon for some strange reason).

Olaf the Stout

 

[irdeggman]

I got the impression that the answer was no (unless you are using it as a melee weapon for some strange reason).

Olaf the Stout

First off what are you trying to get to?

I mean is the archer trying to get a benefit from flanking or is he trying to provide one to an ally?

The archer will get no benefit on his attack.

FLANKING
When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by a character or creature friendly to you on the opponent’s opposite border or opposite corner.

When in doubt about whether two friendly characters flank an opponent in the middle, trace an imaginary line between the two friendly characters’ centers. If the line passes through opposite borders of the opponent’s space (including corners of those borders), then the opponent is flanked.

Exception: If a flanker takes up more than 1 square, it gets the flanking bonus if any square it occupies counts for flanking.

Only a creature or character that threatens the defender can help an attacker get a flanking bonus.

Creatures with a reach of 0 feet can’t flank an opponent.

Now IMO you don't normally threaten with a ranged attack therefor you ally who is in melee can't benefit since even though you are on teh oposite border you don't threaten the foe which is the other part of the conditions that must be met.

Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your action. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you’re unarmed, you don’t normally threaten any squares and thus can’t make attacks of opportunity.
Reach Weapons: Most creatures of Medium or smaller size have a reach of only 5 feet. This means that they can make melee attacks only against creatures up to 5 feet (1 square) away. However, Small and Medium creatures wielding reach weapons threaten more squares than a typical creature. In addition, most creatures larger than Medium have a natural reach of 10 feet or more.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Now IMO you don't normally threaten with a ranged attack therefor you ally who is in melee can't benefit since even though you are on teh oposite border you don't threaten the foe which is the other part of the conditions that must be met.

Thing is, as far as I can see, there is no text to indicate that you must threaten to be considered flanking. You must be using a melee attack to get the +2 bonus for flanking, but the question becomes do you have to have the +2 bonus for flanking to be considered flanking?

 

[Dross]

I got the impression that the answer was no (unless you are using it as a melee weapon for some strange reason).

Olaf the Stout

Thus the handaxe, dagger, spear which can be thrown AND used to threaten. You just need them in you hand (or equivelent) so you DO threaten.

An interesting thing to note (at least to me is) is that you can use an arrow and javelin as an improvised mellee weapon. So as long as these are in hand you do threaten but take -4 on the attack of opportunity. (also note that is an arrow is in the bow ready for firing, it's not in "hand" for this purpose)

 

[Nonlethal Force]

There is also the Arrowmind ranger spell in the spell compendium (My ranger has been using this one like crazy)

This is also in the Complete Adventurer under Arrow Mind. [I don't think one word vs. two words means anything, though!] I knew that sounded familiar, and I don't own the Spell COmpendium so I knew I'd seen it elsewhere.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

First off what are you trying to get to?

The thread that originally convinced me of this "loophole" was a player asking if his rogue, a dagger in one hand and a wand of lesser acid orb in the other (and therefore in melee), and flanking by the commonly accepted definition, got Sneak Attack damage when he fired the wand into his target.

At first, I was all, "Nah." But then, I was all, "Waitaminute..."

 

[Hypersmurf]

The thread that originally convinced me of this "loophole" was a player asking if his rogue, a dagger in one hand and a wand of lesser acid orb in the other (and therefore in melee), and flanking by the commonly accepted definition...

Commonly accepted by...?

-Hyp.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Most people in this thread. Rogue (with dagger) (R), Hobgoblin Target (H), Fighter Ally (with longsword) (F):

RHF

It just seemed odd that he'd be flanking at the start of his turn, flanking as he considered attacking with his dagger, flanking as he threw his dagger across the room at another target, flanking as he quickdrew another dagger, flanking through the hobgoblin's turn, flanking through the fighter's full attack, but as soon as he pointed his wand - BAM! not flanking - and flanking as soon as he put it down again.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It just seemed odd that he'd be flanking at the start of his turn, flanking as he considered attacking with his dagger, flanking as he threw his dagger across the room at another target, flanking as he quickdrew another dagger, flanking through the hobgoblin's turn, flanking through the fighter's full attack, but as soon as he pointed his wand - BAM! not flanking - and flanking as soon as he put it down again.

What about not flanking at the start of his turn, not flanking as he considered attacking with his dagger, flanking as he made a melee attack with his dagger, not-flanking-not-flanking-not-flanking until the fighter makes a melee attack?

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

Ok, so to make things clear: By the RAW you can flank with a ranged weapon in 3.5?
Is that right?

No, you can't. Only according to Patryn.