Can you take 20?

DM-Rocco

Explorer
I reading this thread:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=164526
And now that I have, I have questions about what other skills you can take 20 on?

I actually was going to post this a long time ago, but I get lazy.

Anyway, I am working right now, but when I get home, I'll list all of the skills and perhaps I can get some helpful insight on what you can and can not take 10 or 20 on.
 

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Okay, I found a second at work, and my SRD file. Here are the skills listed there. Please comment on if you take 10 or 20 on each, and if the answer is depends, please expand.

Thanks for your time
DM-Rocco

From the SRD

Time and Skill Checks
Using a skill might take a round, take no time, or take several rounds or even longer. Most skill uses are standard actions, move actions, or full-round actions. Types of actions define how long activities take to perform within the framework of a combat round (6 seconds) and how movement is treated with respect to the activity. Some skill checks are instant and represent reactions to an event, or are included as part of an action.
These skill checks are not actions. Other skill checks represent part of movement.

Checks without Rolls
A skill check represents an attempt to accomplish some goal, usually while under some sort of time pressure or distraction. Sometimes, though, a character can use a skill under more favorable conditions and eliminate the luck factor.
Taking 10: When your character is not being threatened or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure —you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn’t help.
Taking 20:When you have plenty of time (generally 2 minutes for a skill that can normally be checked in 1 round, one full-round action, or one standard action), you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, eventually you will get a 20 on 1d20 if you roll enough times. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20.
Taking 20 means you are trying until you get it right, and it assumes that you fail many times before succeeding. Taking 20 takes twenty times as long as making a single check would take.
Since taking 20 assumes that the character will fail many times before succeeding, if you did attempt to take 20 on a skill that carries penalties for failure, your character would automatically incur those penalties before he or she could complete the task. Common “take 20” skills include Escape Artist, Open Lock, and Search.
Ability Checks and Caster Level Checks: The normal take 10 and take 20 rules apply for ability checks. Neither rule applies to caster level checks.


APPRAISE (INT)
BALANCE (DEX; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
BLUFF (CHA)
CLIMB (STR; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
CONCENTRATION (CON)
CRAFT (INT)
DECIPHER SCRIPT (INT; TRAINED ONLY)
DIPLOMACY (CHA)
DISABLE DEVICE (INT; TRAINED ONLY)
DISGUISE (CHA)
ESCAPE ARTIST (DEX; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
FORGERY (INT)
GATHER INFORMATION (CHA)
HEAL (WIS)
HIDE (DEX; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
INTIMIDATE (CHA)
JUMP (STR; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
KNOWLEDGE (INT; TRAINED ONLY)
LISTEN (WIS)
MOVE SILENTLY (DEX; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
OPEN LOCK (DEX; TRAINED ONLY)
PERFORM (CHA)
PROFESSION (WIS; TRAINED ONLY)
RIDE (DEX)
SEARCH (INT)
SENSE MOTIVE (WIS)
SLEIGHT OF HAND (DEX; TRAINED ONLY; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
SPEAK LANGUAGE (NONE; TRAINED ONLY)
SPELLCRAFT (INT; TRAINED ONLY)
SPOT (WIS)
SURVIVAL (WIS)
SWIM (STR; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
TUMBLE (DEX; TRAINED ONLY; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
USE MAGIC DEVICE (CHA; TRAINED ONLY)
USE ROPE (DEX)
 

Can you take 20

Appraise - no
Balance - not usually
Bluff - no
Climb - not usually
Concentration - not usually
Craft - Yes, but it will cost more and take more time
Decipher Script - Yes
Diplomacy - No
Disable Device - no
Disguise - no
Escape Artist - yes
Forgery - no
Gather Information - yes, but with possible consequences
Handle Animal - I suppose, but it will take a long time
Heal - sometimes
Hide - no
Intimidate - no
Jump - no
Knowledge - yes
Listen - yes
Move Silently - no
Open Lock - yes
Perform - no
Profession - not sure, probably not
Ride - no usually
Search - yes
Sense Motive - no
Sleight of Hand - no
Speak Language - n/a
Spellcraft - not usually
Spot - not usually
Survival - no
Swim - no
Tumble - no
Use Magic Device - no
Use Rope - sometimes
 

Thornir Alekeg said:
Craft - Yes, but it will cost more and take more time
Don't you run the risk of ruining your materials if you fail? If so, then No.
Gather Information - yes, but with possible consequences
What do you mean 'possible consequences'. If there are consequences of failure, then the answer should be No.
Knowledge - yes
Knowledge checks can't be retried, can they? If they can't, then you can't Take 20.


glass.
 

Generally the guidepost for being able to take 20 is 'are there no consequences for failure, other than I don't succeed at what I wanted to do?'. And then of course there's the time requirement, and that you have to be able to try again, but that's seperate. So with that in mind, skills you can take 20 on:

Disguise (though it takes a long time to do so. 2-10 hours kind of long)
Escape Artist
Gather Information (depending on how your DM wants to handle the 'may draw attention to yourself' comment)
Handle Animal (except for rearing an animal)
Heal (to provide first aid)
Hide (but only if you're not rushed, threatened, etc which is pretty rare. Maybe if you're trying to camoflage something, or setting up an ambush well in advance)
Listen (if you're activly trying to hear something instead of making a passive check)
Open Lock
Search
Spellcraft (but only for certain uses, and can take truly stupid amounts of time.)
Spot (under similar conditions to Listen, above)
Survival (to find tracks, as well as follow tracks if you have the appropriate feat)
Use Rope (for uses other than securing a grappling hook)
 

To expand a bit:

Appraise, decifer script, forgery, knowledge (whoops, gotta edit that), and sense motive all have no retry, so it can't be used.

Most of the "not usually" have consequences if you fail. There are circumstance where you probable could. i.e. Climb with a Ring of Feather Fall.

The social skills (bluff, diplomacy, intimidate) don't really work well if you just keep trying. Your target is sure to get wise to you. That applies to most of the opposed checks.

Use Rope depends upon what you are trying to do. If you are trying to splice rope, sure. If you are trying to secure a grapple, you could, but you'll probably attract attention.

Overall, I don't know why there is so much worry about taking 20 since it is pretty limited in what it can be used for.
 

glass said:
Don't you run the risk of ruining your materials if you fail?
If so, then No.
Ok, by the rules you are correct. As a DM if someone really wanted to, I could calculate how much wasted material they use and figure it out. It's pretty lazy and stupid but I'd allow it.

What do you mean 'possible consequences'. If there are consequences of failure, then the answer should be No.
Its not a consequence of failure per se, it is that people might start to notice if you keep asking around. I would say it is DM judgement.

Knowledge checks can't be retried, can they? If they can't, then you can't Take 20.
Yes, I caught my error after I posted.


glass.[/QUOTE]
 

Thornir Alekeg said:
To expand a bit:

Appraise, decifer script, forgery, knowledge (whoops, gotta edit that), and sense motive all have no retry, so it can't be used.

In some of these cases, I'd allow someone to take 20 if they had access to additional materials like research materials (appraise, decipher script, and knowledge).
 

Sejs said:
Hide (but only if you're not rushed, threatened, etc which is pretty rare. Maybe if you're trying to camoflage something, or setting up an ambush well in advance)

I would rule that you could only do that if you had someone else who could check on you (maybe by taking 20 on a Spot check?). Otherwise it is hard to know if you have missed something.
 

Thornir Alekeg said:
I would rule that you could only do that if you had someone else who could check on you (maybe by taking 20 on a Spot check?). Otherwise it is hard to know if you have missed something.
A reasonable position to take. The assumption I was making is that in part you're sort of doing that yourself. Essentially, you spend some of that time you're taking 20 scouting out a good location and checking relative visibility before moving to the spot you've picked out and getting yourself situated.
 

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