Can you teleport an unwilling, but unconscious, person with you?

[Magic Rub]

Question?
Can I fit the word "question" in to a post anymore then I did in the last?

Ever say/type a word so much that it loses all meaning?

 

[Artoomis]

Unconscious
Knocked out and helpless.

Helpless
Bound, held, sleeping, paralyzed, or unconscious characters are helpless. Enemies can make advantageous attacks against helpless characters, or even deliver a usually lethal coup de grace.
A melee attack against a helpless character is at a +4 bonus on the attack roll (equivalent to attacking a prone target). A ranged attack gets no special bonus. A helpless defender can't use any Dexterity bonus to AC. In fact, his Dexterity score is treated as if it were 0 and his Dexterity modifier to AC were -5 (and a rogue can sneak attack him).

Incapacitated
Characters who are incapacitated are treated as helpless.

Taken together, I'd say an unconscious character is pretty much treated as an object. This is, of course, both good and bad.

It's good to be able to be teleported away by your buddies when you need to be.

It's bad to be teleported away by the bad guys as their prisoner.

Note that this seems to be the same as "sleeping" - even though the Sage ruled that sleeping characters can get Will saves. Of course, the Will save is not an issue here anyway - it's a question of being willing or not. It's probabaly best to be treated more as an object than as a character for this purpose

 

[IceBear]

I agree.

I know my players would scream blue murder if one of them was down and dying and another PC tried to teleport away with him to safety and I said that he would be left behind because he wasn't willing

So.....since they would feel that way if an ally tried to teleport with them, they wouldn't have a leg to stand on if an enemy tried the same thing

IceBear

 

[Vaxalon]

The way I understand it, it is an act of will to allow a spell to affect you with no save, unless it is "harmless", in which case it is an act of will to resist the spell and claim the save.

 

[Volefisk]

Wisdom

Any creature that can perceive its environment in any fashion has at least 1 point of Wisdom.

Anything with no Wisdom score is an object, not a creature. Anything without a Wisdom score also has no Charisma score, and vice versa.
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The real quest come down to can unconscious victims perceive its environment in anyway? If it cannot and is considered helpless then it is nothing more then an object according to the rules of wisdom.

Also, note the wording of the following:

quote:
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- INT 0 means that the character cannot think and is unconscious in a coma like stupor, helpless.
· WIS 0 means that the character is withdrawn into a deep sleep filled with nightmares, helpless.
· CHA 0 means that the character is withdrawn into a catatonic, coma like stupor, helpless.

All of which indicate that unconsciousness due to injury may be much more drastic then just plain sleeping at a normal campfire.

The problem with this logic is that being unconscious is not the same as having "no Wisdom score." Nor is it the same as having "WIS 0."

Is your character more susceptible to poison because he is unconscious? No.

A character might withdraw "into a deep sleep filled with nightmares, helpless" at the DM's discression when they have been rendered unconscious... but that doesn't necessarily mean that they have a Wisdom score of 0, just because the end product is the same! Many diseases share symptoms, but should we conclude that they are all the same disease by virtue of their similar effects?

Having a Wisdom score of zero means you are an object. Being unconscious does not mean you have a Wisdom score of zero, and thus it does not mean you are an object.

<volefisk>

 

[THAC0]

Curious, to those who believe that you are "unwilling by default" when you are unconcious, do you require that the unconcious character make a Will save if their ally attempts to cast Cure Light Wounds on them?

 

[Crothian]

Curious, to those who believe that you are "unwilling by default" when you are unconcious, do you require that the unconcious character make a Will save if their ally attempts to cast Cure Light Wounds on them?

You are not unwilling by default. However, you are not willing by default either. The spells specifies you have to be willing. Your character is unaware and can't be willing or unwilling. So, the cure light wounds question is moot.

 

[Artoomis]

You are not unwilling by default. However, you are not willing by default either. The spells specifies you have to be willing. Your character is unaware and can't be willing or unwilling. So, the cure light wounds question is moot.

But the main question is not.

It comes down to whether, for the purposes of teleport only, is an unconcious person a "persohn" or an "object."

Or, if you prefer, can you be teleported to safety if you are unconcious?

 

[Bonedagger]

But the main question is not.

It comes down to whether, for the purposes of teleport only, is an unconcious person a "persohn" or an "object."

Or, if you prefer, can you be teleported to safety if you are unconcious?

I don't have the rules in front of me but I would just call an unconcious person helpless. Not an object. So no teleporting with the Teleport spell.

(Edited a typo: willinng -> an object)

 

[Kraedin]

They are a person, not an object. If an object is defined as somthing with no wisdom score, something with a wisdom score is by definition not an object. Knocked-out people still have wisdom scores. (Even if they are knocked out by wisdom drain, by the way, a zero wisdom does not correlate to no wisdom score.)

Therefore, no teleportation for unaware subjects. (Too bad, dying party member. Oh well. You should have been more careful.)