can you weapon finesse a two handed double weapon?

[Kmart Kommando]

True, but by the same token, every double weapon is listed as a Two-Handed Weapon.



Huh? No he's not. Bastard Sword is a One-Handed Melee Weapon. Check your book.

If you do not have EWP: Bastard Sword then you can wield the Bastard Sword in two hands as a Martial Weapon. You would get 1.5x your Str bonus to damage per the rule:



If you do not have EWP: Bastard Sword and try to wield it in one hand, then you take the appropriate penalities for not being proficient in the weapon, and you only apply 1x Str in damage, because it is a One-Handed Melee Weapon.



:shrug: I'm just telling you how the RAW works. FWIW, the FAQ agrees with you (I'm not sure if you consider that a good thing or a bad thing).

Sword, Bastard: A bastard sword is too large to use in one hand without special training; thus, it is an exotic weapon. A character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon.

RAW is Read As Wrong, apparently. It translates loosely as "whatever gives me the most pluses"

 

[Hypersmurf]

RAW is Read As Wrong, apparently. It translates loosely as "whatever gives me the most pluses"

You quoted yourself - it can be used two-handed. Not "it can be used as a two-handed weapon".

It's still a one-handed weapon, which you are using with two hands - two-handed. There's a difference between using [a two-handed weapon], and using [a weapon] two-handed...

-Hyp.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

You quoted yourself - it can be used two-handed. Not "it can be used as a two-handed weapon".

It's still a one-handed weapon, which you are using with two hands - two-handed. There's a difference between using [a two-handed weapon], and using [a weapon] two-handed...

-Hyp.

meh, the quotes run together no matter what I do.

A bastard sword is a 2-handed martial weapon. You would still have to take the -4 penalty if it were just an exotic weapon all around.

 

[glass]

Dude, I totally beat you by, like, almost an entire day on that one.

Yeah, I was running out of time before having to start work, and I didn't read the whole thread. I sorta assumed that as noone had responded for several posts, noone was going to. Bad assumption, obviously.


glass.

 

[glass]

If you do not have EWP: Bastard Sword and try to wield it in one hand, then you take the appropriate penalities for not being proficient in the weapon, and you only apply 1x Str in damage, because it is a One-Handed Melee Weapon.

If you do not have the EWP you cannot use a bastard sword in one hand at all.

A bastard sword is too large to use in one hand without special training

glass.

 

[glass]

meh, the quotes run together no matter what I do.

A bastard sword is a 2-handed martial weapon. You would still have to take the -4 penalty if it were just an exotic weapon all around.

A bastard sword is a 1-handed exotic weapon. Its right there on the 1-handed exotic weapons table (it is the first entry), so I don't really see how you can say it is anything else.

I don't understand the rest of your post at all. What are you trying to say?


glass.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A bastard sword is a 2-handed martial weapon.

It's a one-handed exotic weapon, which can be used two-handed as a martial weapon... not 'which can be used as a two-handed martial weapon'.

It's still a one-handed weapon even when you're using it as a martial weapon... just one that you need both hands to use.

-Hyp.

 

[Zaruthustran]

I'm with Kmart Kommando on this one. I think the entry for Strength should take precedence over the entry for weapons when determining how Strength bonuses are applied to damage.

You apply your character’s Strength modifier to:
Damage rolls when using a melee weapon or a thrown weapon (including a sling). (Exceptions: Off-hand attacks receive only one-half the character’s Strength bonus, while two-handed attacks receive one and a half times the Strength bonus. A Strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies to attacks made with a bow that is not a composite bow.)

"Two-handed attacks" seems to mean "an attack made with two hands", not "an attack with a two-handed weapon, regardless of how that weapon is wielded".

Plus, the designations of light, one-handed, and two-handed are just D&D-speak for "relative weapon size".

Weapon Size: Every weapon has a size category. This designation indicates the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed.

A weapon’s size category isn’t the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon’s size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder. In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.

So, a medium creature using a two-handed weapon in one hand would apply just 1x his Str bonus to damage, even though the weapon is designated in size as being "two-handed." You're not getting 1.5xStr bonus with that lance while mounted.

The 1.5x str bonus only applies when a person has two actual hands providing power to the weapon's strike, so long as the weapon isn't too small/sized as "light".

Given all of the above, I read the entry for "two-handed" in the overview of weapon sizes to be:

"Two-Handed: Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively. [Assuming a medium creature is using the weapon effectively by wielding it with both hands, apply the rules from the entry for Strength, summarized here: ] Apply 1-1/2 times the character’s Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with such a weapon."

-z

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'm with Kmart Kommando on this one. I think the entry for Strength should take precedence over the entry for weapons when determining how Strength bonuses are applied to damage.

The 1.5x str bonus only applies when a person has two actual hands providing power to the weapon's strike, so long as the weapon isn't too small/sized as "light".

If the entry for Strength takes precedence over the entry for weapons, then 1.5x Str bonus should apply even if the weapon is light.

The Strength entry says a two-handed attack adds 1.5x Str bonus; the Weapons entry says using both hands with a light weapon adds only normal Str bonus; if the Strength entry takes precedence, then we're left with 1.5x.

Or do you mean you think the Strength entry takes precedence over the Two-Handed Weapons entry, but the Light Weapons entry takes precedence over the Strength entry?

-Hyp.

 

[Zaruthustran]

If the entry for Strength takes precedence over the entry for weapons, then 1.5x Str bonus should apply even if the weapon is light.

The Strength entry says a two-handed attack adds 1.5x Str bonus; the Weapons entry says using both hands with a light weapon adds only normal Str bonus; if the Strength entry takes precedence, then we're left with 1.5x.

Or do you mean you think the Strength entry takes precedence over the Two-Handed Weapons entry, but the Light Weapons entry takes precedence over the Strength entry?

-Hyp.

Good point. I suppose this is a case where the general rule is followed except when contradicted by an exception. In this case, the quirk about light weapons not benefiting from 1.5xstr bonus when wielded with two hands.

In fact, the exception proves the rule--the exception wouldn't have to be there unless getting 1.5xStr bonus is purely a function of how many hands are used to wield the weapon.

Using two hands to wield a light weapon gives no advantage on damage; the Strength bonus applies as though the weapon were held in the wielder’s primary hand only.

The underlined portion shows that str bonus to damage normally depends on the number of hands wielding that weapon, not the weapon's size.

I stand by the rest of my post. Including the bit about a one-armed guy holding a greatsword (or other large/two-handed weapon) only getting 1xStr bonus.

-z