can you weapon finesse a two handed double weapon?

[Hypersmurf]

The other classifications of effort needed to wield a weapon (one-handed, two-handed) simply reference the general str rule. They don't have any exceptions to that rule, so there's no need to create new rules.

But Two-Handed Weapons don't reference the general Str rule.

If it said "Such a weapon adds 1.5x Str bonus to damage when wielded in two hands", fine. If it said "Such a weapon adds 1.5x Str bonus to damage, according to the rule for two-handed melee attacks", I'd see your position.

But it doesn't. It simply states that two-handed weapons apply 1.5x Str bonus to damage.

-Hyp.

 

[RigaMortus2]

The only conditions that I can find in the rules as to when you apply 1.5x Str with a melee weapon are:

1) When you wield a One-Handed Melee Weapon in two hands
2) With Two-Handed Melee Weapons (note, it doesn't state HOW they have to be wielded, though you would assume in two-hands, this is not always the case, such as with the Lance).

A One-Handed Melee Weapon wielded in two-hands does not magical change into a Two-Handed Melee Weapon. This is a made up rule. I would like to ask where it states this in the rules.

A Large Longsword is a One-Handed Melee Weapon. If a Medium-sized character wants to wield it, they muse use both hands. Likewise, it is not somehow transformed into a Two-Handed Melee Weapon when a Medium-sized character wields in, and then changes back to a One-Handed Melee Weapon when a Large-sized character wields it. To state as much is, again, making up another rule.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A Large Longsword is a One-Handed Melee Weapon. If a Medium-sized character wants to wield it, they muse use both hands. Likewise, it is not somehow transformed into a Two-Handed Melee Weapon when a Medium-sized character wields in, and then changes back to a One-Handed Melee Weapon when a Large-sized character wields it. To state as much is, again, making up another rule.

It's considered a two-handed melee weapon for the Medium creature, however. While he's using it, he'll get the +4 bonus to Sunder and Disarm.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.

Large one-handed weapon, Medium wielder? The designation of the weapon (light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon) is altered by one step. The designation is changed to 'two-handed weapon' for that wielder.

A One-Handed Melee Weapon wielded in two-hands does not magical change into a Two-Handed Melee Weapon. This is a made up rule. I would like to ask where it states this in the rules.

This, now, I agree with completely.

-Hyp.

 

[glass]

Ah, is Hypersmurf at work in the rules forum not truely a thing of beauty...

Anyway, I think we would have this debate a lot less often if 'Light, One-handed, Two-handed' had been called 'Light, Moderate, Heavy'!



glass.

 

[RigaMortus2]

It's considered a two-handed melee weapon for the Medium creature, however. While he's using it, he'll get the +4 bonus to Sunder and Disarm.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.

Large one-handed weapon, Medium wielder? The designation of the weapon (light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon) is altered by one step. The designation is changed to 'two-handed weapon' for that wielder.

-Hyp.

I see... Thanks for pointing that out...

Is it possible (through a feat or otherwise) for a Medium character to wield a Large Greatsword?

Or how about this one... Could a Halfling wield a Huge Lance in one hand while mounted?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Is it possible (through a feat or otherwise) for a Medium character to wield a Large Greatsword?

Monkey Grip is expressly designed for this purpose. Essentially what it does is allow you to disregard the rule that the designation is altered by one step, for a weapon designed for a creature one size larger than you.

Normally, for a Medium creature, a Large shortsword is a one-handed weapon, a Large longsword is a two-handed weapon, and a Large greatsword is too-large-to-wield. For a Medium creature with Monkey Grip, a Large shortsword is a light weapon, a Large longsword is a one-handed weapon, and a Large greatsword is a two-handed weapon.

Or how about this one... Could a Halfling wield a Huge Lance in one hand while mounted?

Here we strike an issue (also found with bastard swords, dwarven waraxes, whips and other reach weapons) where a weapon description is written with an inherent assumption that a Small or Medium wielder is using an appropriately-sized version of the weapon.

It's also found with some of the double weapons.

For example, the text of the gnome hooked hammer states that the hammer end deals 1d6 damage, and the hook end deals 1d4. What it doesn't state explicitly (and what we must infer) is that these figures are for the Small (gnome-sized) version of the weapon, and that it changes if the size changes.

The guisarme states that it can be used to strike opponents ten feet away. But if it's a Large creature with a Large guisarme, we know that it can't - it can be used to strike opponents 15 or 20 feet away, but not ten feet away.

The bastard sword is too large to wield in one hand without special training. But what if we have an ogre wielding a Medium bastard sword? Can he wield it in one hand without special training? It can be used two-handed as a martial weapon. A halfling with a Large bastard sword would consider it a two-handed exotic weapon. Can he use it two-handed as a martial weapon? Is it too large for him to wield in two hands without special training?

A lance is a two-handed weapon. For a halfling with a Medium lance, the designation shifts from 'two-handed' to 'too large to wield'. Which takes precedence - 'While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand'? 'The weapon is too large to wield'? Or some hybrid ruling where an unmounted halfling cannot wield a Medium lance, but a mounted halfling can wield it in two hands?

Unfortunately, the weapon descriptions haven't taken inappropriate size into account for the non-standard weapons.

-Hyp.

 

[hong]

I disagree.

A bastard sword is too large to use in one hand without special training.

If you don't have the special training, the sword is too large to use in one hand. You don't incur a penalty; you simply can't use it.

Man, that's dumb. What, I can use a spiked chain without braining myself by taking a -4 to the roll, but I can't use a simple steel blade in one hand, just because the grip and balance is a bit wonky? Feh to that, says I, feh and bah.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Man, that's dumb. What, I can use a spiked chain without braining myself by taking a -4 to the roll, but I can't use a simple steel blade in one hand, just because the grip and balance is a bit wonky? Feh to that, says I, feh and bah.

Funny, I would have peged you for a Pffft. type of fella.

 

[hong]

Funny, I would have peged you for a Pffft. type of fella.

I realised that I might get mistaken for that Nffft fella, so I changed.